Date   

Re: can't read the thunderbird document that I have

Gene
 

Are you saying a program opens called Libre Office Writer?  If so, you have it, whether you intentionally got it or not.
 
Find the file, open the context menu, and find open with.  Press enter.  See what programs are offered to open the file.  Press enter on the one you want. 
 
I won’t describe how to permanently change the program the file type opens with in this message.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2021 8:59 PM
Subject: [chat] can't read the thunderbird document that I have
 
Hi, everyone,


I have the tutorial about thunderbird but I'm not able to read it now.
When I open it, it says it's in libre office writer and I don't have
that. I used to be able to read it in wordpad but now I can't. I wonder
if I hit a wrong key or something. I'd like to be able to read the
document again like I did before.


Thanks for your help in advance.


Rosemarie








can't read the thunderbird document that I have

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, everyone,


I have the tutorial about thunderbird but I'm not able to read it now. When I open it, it says it's in libre office writer and I don't have that. I used to be able to read it in wordpad but now I can't. I wonder if I hit a wrong key or something. I'd like to be able to read the document again like I did before.


Thanks for your help in advance.


Rosemarie


Re: explaining accessibility to sighted people

 

On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 01:17 PM, farhan israk wrote:
our university website
-
By the way, if your university has a Disability Services or Disability Resources Center you should consider getting them involved at any time that you encounter accessibility issues, whether with your university website proper or any web resource you are expected to use as part of your studies.

Sadly, you'll often find that you're teaching them something but, this means that they'll know it the next time something similar occurs, or remember it if it has not been fixed and someone comes in with the same issue.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

The poor wish to be rich, the rich wish to be happy, the single wish to be married, and the married wish to be dead.

       ~ Ann Landers


Re: explaining accessibility to sighted people

 

Farhan,

Rather than even trying to explain it, if you have the option, demonstrate it.

It is much easier, if there is a help desk with a live person, or someone from the IT department who is there live, to understand what's wrong when they can actually see what you can't do.

Ideally, if the situation presents itself, first have them do "the sighted way" what you are about to attempt to do, then do it with a screen reader until "the sticking point" is reached.  That gives them an even better idea of where the issue is and why it needs to be addressed.

Trying to describe accessibility, or the lack thereof, in the abstract is very, very difficult indeed.  But it's very simple to demonstrate it, even if that ends up being via video screen capture.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

The poor wish to be rich, the rich wish to be happy, the single wish to be married, and the married wish to be dead.

       ~ Ann Landers


explaining accessibility to sighted people

farhan israk
 

how can i explain accessibility to sighted people? our university website is accessible. however, there is a page to check status of a student. we call it ERP. Basically, the page is accessible. i can access site menu with a screen reader. However, I cannot access the corresponding menu. For example, I can click academic. Some options come after clicking academic. Sighted people can see and click them. However, I cannot navigate among those options and click with the screen reader.


Re: Using The Mouse?

 

On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 10:40 AM, Rowen Cary wrote:
I can use the mouse to arrange the order of the icons on the desktop taskbar.
-
And that's an excellent example.  I can no longer keep track of how many times I've talked about using a mouse for "constrained movement," even when it's in "full regular" mode.  You cannot pull an item off of the taskbar.  The only thing you can do is drag it left/right in the ordering if you left click and hold on that quick launch icon.  And even if you can't see what you're doing, it still tends to be faster with drag and drop (horizontal only) in the taskbar than it is to delete multiple items and re-add them to get the arrangement you want.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

The poor wish to be rich, the rich wish to be happy, the single wish to be married, and the married wish to be dead.

       ~ Ann Landers


Re: Using The Mouse?

Rowen Cary
 

I can use the mouse to arrange the order of the icons on the desktop taskbar. I think the mouse is meaningful for the visually impaired.


Newest Videos from Nimer's Tech and Outdoor Adventures YouTube Channel

Nimer Jaber
 

Hello everyone,

Varun comes back to discuss his views on the Nord CE 5G Android device he unboxed a couple of weeks ago. To watch that video, check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EegaHLxiZeU

I discuss Chromebooks, and begin doing a demo of Chrome OS in part one at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0LjCtXmXdc

If you like the videos, please consider pressing the like button, and sharing them with your friends. Please also consider subscribing to the channel to receive more content. For additional content, you can check out www.youtube.com/nimerjaber

Thanks.

--
Best,

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The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
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Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: typing game

farhan israk
 

Thank you. I don't like type ability. Is any similar game available? I am an nvda user.


On Fri, 6 Aug 2021, 11:34 pm John Sanfilippo, <johnsanfilippo@...> wrote:
Try a web search for

typability
by David Pinto.

John



On 8/6/21 13:12, farhan israk wrote:
> Is any accessible typing game available for blind?
>

--
- JS o m -






Re: typing game

John Sanfilippo
 

Try a web search for

typability
by David Pinto.

John

On 8/6/21 13:12, farhan israk wrote:
Is any accessible typing game available for blind?
--
- JS o m -


typing game

farhan israk
 

Is any accessible typing game available for blind?


Re: Using The Mouse?

Gene
 

I just found a site where the virtual mouse doesn’t move when the NVDA command is given.  Here is a link to a Youtube video, though I suspect the problem exists in general on the site. 
 
I tried this with both Chrome and Firefox.  I tried moving to the pause button, then moving the virtual mouse to it, then left clicking it.  The button wasn’t pressed.  At times, something would happen, indicating that the mouse is taking an action somewhere, but not where it should be.  The button works with the space bar and with the NVDA command numpad insert numpad plus.
 
I’m giving this page in case anyone wants to try to determine what is keeping the mouse from moving. 
 
Since I now have an example, I’ll probably write a ticket soon.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2021 9:39 AM
Subject: [chat] RE Using The Mouse
 
Hello NVDA Chat,
Gene, thank you for your shared experience of the occasional link not
working with the 'virtual mouse'.
If you are collecting URLs then add
www.textbroker.com
The issue is registered persons with that site using screen readers,
can only use a regular mouse to indicate if they are an author writing
for the site, or client, receiving content ordered from writers.
I tried the context menu, and definately need one-on-one to understand
what the heavens my choices are.
Admittedly, my tech savvy has a ways to go to equal the proficiency of
some, here.
Thankfully, some websites have utilized writers to provide learning
material that anticipates what is needed by the one learning.
Technology does not exactly behave the way some may describe when
providing step-by-step tutelage.
Example from my life, to create a document in MS Word (2019) I press
control N and enter. Then, I am prompted to press alt f then the keys
n and l, and enter. At that point, I am free to start making a new
document.
Thus, control n by itself, is not going to let me create a new document.
What does this all mean in terms of using a conventional mouse or
virtual mouse as a blind user?
It means one need to know what to do in either case, just as anyone does.
The acronym, KISS, well applies: Keep it simple someone.

David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@...





Using The Mouse?

David Russell <david.sonofhashem@...>
 

Hello NVDA Chat,
Gene, thank you for your shared experience of the occasional link not
working with the 'virtual mouse'.
If you are collecting URLs then add
www.textbroker.com
The issue is registered persons with that site using screen readers,
can only use a regular mouse to indicate if they are an author writing
for the site, or client, receiving content ordered from writers.
I tried the context menu, and definately need one-on-one to understand
what the heavens my choices are.
Admittedly, my tech savvy has a ways to go to equal the proficiency of
some, here.
Thankfully, some websites have utilized writers to provide learning
material that anticipates what is needed by the one learning.
Technology does not exactly behave the way some may describe when
providing step-by-step tutelage.
Example from my life, to create a document in MS Word (2019) I press
control N and enter. Then, I am prompted to press alt f then the keys
n and l, and enter. At that point, I am free to start making a new
document.
Thus, control n by itself, is not going to let me create a new document.
What does this all mean in terms of using a conventional mouse or
virtual mouse as a blind user?
It means one need to know what to do in either case, just as anyone does.
The acronym, KISS, well applies: Keep it simple someone.

David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@...


Using The Mouse?

David Russell <david.sonofhashem@...>
 

Hello NVDA Chat,

Brian, thanks for the explanation of how the mouse may potentially be
used by a sightless person. I had not heard this technique before to
cover up the underside.
Janet, thanks too for chiming in and encouraging giving such a try.
I may try this with the work site that I discussed in a previous post.
It's the 'last straw' before considering this 7-year gig a done deal
and moving on.
Thanks again.

--
David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@...


Re: Using The Mouse?

Gene
 

On web pages, I sometimes can’t move the virtual mmouse to where it should be to click something.  I haven’t kept a list of web pages where this occurs but I know it doesn’t move because no announcement is made of text when I use the move mouse command, indicating that the virtual mouse isn’t being moved.  I try this on some pages where a control won’t respond to the keyboard or the NVDA command Numpad insert numpad plus command. 
 
I may not have found something that is there, but I didn’t find much relevant on Github.  I did find a discussion of this happening using Edge, but it may have been the old Edge.  It was from 2018.  I don’t remember when the new Edge came out.  But I have seen this happen on other browsers as well.
 
Do developers know about this problem?  I can file a ticket after I get a web page or two that exhibits this behavior with NVDA, but since I have no idea what pages may do so, it may be a while. 
 
This problem may keep people from doing things on web pages that only respond to the mouse on certain controls or on links.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2021 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [chat] Using The Mouse?
 

The idea of using a mouse has always been interesting to me. I have played around with this a bit and find it very interesting to get spacial information about how the screen is laid out. I may try this some ore with covering up the underside of it. Sometimes we have to “think outside the box”.

 

Thanks for your thoughts, Brian.

 

Janet

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: August 5, 2021 9:07 AM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [chat] Using The Mouse?

 

David,

I have "chimed in" on this more times than I can count.  While it makes zero sense for a blind person to use a mouse in the manner designed and intended by a sighted person, there are a number of ways a blind person can use a mouse or mouse pad.

There are some rare, very rare, occasions where right click/applications-menu key and SHIFT + F10 do not produce the same context menu.  If you have a keyboard sans applications/menu key, and SHIFT + F10 is not producing the extended context menu, then having that real right click is a godsend.

I also find it much easier to use a real left click with a correctly prepared mouse (the optical part on the underside is taped over so that moving the mouse does not move the mouse pointer) to activate things that require a mouse click than using the screen reader emulation for same, which I've found to be unreliable.  Once you've routed the mouse pointer to where the screen reader has focus, you just left click.

Masking the mouse movement area on a mousepad with a sheet of slightly heavy cardboard (file folder thickness or a bit more) is the equivalent of taping over the optical port on a real mouse.  It gives you access to the real left and right mouse click buttons without fear of moving the mouse pointer.

Some of this also depends, of course, on how you were trained and whether or not you may have once had sight.  There has been a lot of training over the years that you almost got your hand slapped if you tried to touch a mouse or mouse pad (which I think is a mistake, see above), but if you are already basically a keyboard-only user, and comfortable with it, then why change?  But many (most, actually) of my clients over the years are individuals who became blind as adults, and had years of computer use use under their belts, and it is as natural to them to use the "click" part of a mouse or mousepad as breathing, even though they cannot and should not use the point part (as a general rule).

I've also taught a couple of steady-handed people how to do the mouse equivalent of visually scanning the screen, with a regular mouse, as you can sometimes discover things more quickly that way.  It's not common, but.  The way screen readers work with virtual cursors very often means that things are loaded in a way that is quite different than the actual visual layout of the screen, and in most cases that visual layout is what it is to guide the sighted user to things more quickly.  When something that's visually near the top of the screen ends up being the 45th item you'd tab to, and presuming you have no prior experience with a given site, it can take a lot longer to find that it's there than a careful "mouse scan" of the screen will sometimes get you if mouse tracking is turned on.

There is, truly, more than one way to get a result, and there are ways that thouse without sight can use both prepared mice or mousepads or just regular ones, with the latter being a rare thing in comparison to the former.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

The poor wish to be rich, the rich wish to be happy, the single wish to be married, and the married wish to be dead.

       ~ Ann Landers


Re: Using The Mouse?

JM Casey
 

Hello.

I agree with the first bit to an extent. I'm not sure what you meant by links or the distinction between left and right clicking -- I don't reallys ee that as a problem. But certainly mouse can move rather easilya nd is difficult to control if you can't see wehre the pointer is going. It only takes minute movements, though I guess maybe there are mouse sensitivity changes you can make that might make it easier? I have never really played with them but, perhaps you could adjust the sensitivity to a point where slight movements didn't really change the pointer position. But your'e also limited by space -- I know I currently don't even have room for a mouse pad on my desk *grins*

-----Original Message-----
From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Russell
Sent: August 5, 2021 10:40 AM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [chat] Using The Mouse?

Hello NVDA Chat,

I was in recent discussion with a sighted person and the topic of hot keys vs mouse was part of the conversation.
They maintain that it would be quite difficult for a person without sight to use the standard computer mouse because of precise position being required to activate the click on what is wanted. The second issue is do you right click or left click?
I know links serve a purpose and work well for us blind persons. Would you agree or tend to agree with this observation concerning the limits of using the mouse by sightless people?
If not, what is your experience?
Thanks for chiming in on this.

--
David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@...


anydesk

farhan israk
 

i found that anydesk is not accessible with nvda. is any addon available to make it accessible? Yes, I can use nvda remote or quick assist. sighted people do not use nvda. Sometimes, I do not get the choice to select  quick assist. I have to use anydesk forcefully.


Re: Using The Mouse?

Janet Brandly
 

The idea of using a mouse has always been interesting to me. I have played around with this a bit and find it very interesting to get spacial information about how the screen is laid out. I may try this some ore with covering up the underside of it. Sometimes we have to “think outside the box”.

 

Thanks for your thoughts, Brian.

 

Janet

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: August 5, 2021 9:07 AM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [chat] Using The Mouse?

 

David,

I have "chimed in" on this more times than I can count.  While it makes zero sense for a blind person to use a mouse in the manner designed and intended by a sighted person, there are a number of ways a blind person can use a mouse or mouse pad.

There are some rare, very rare, occasions where right click/applications-menu key and SHIFT + F10 do not produce the same context menu.  If you have a keyboard sans applications/menu key, and SHIFT + F10 is not producing the extended context menu, then having that real right click is a godsend.

I also find it much easier to use a real left click with a correctly prepared mouse (the optical part on the underside is taped over so that moving the mouse does not move the mouse pointer) to activate things that require a mouse click than using the screen reader emulation for same, which I've found to be unreliable.  Once you've routed the mouse pointer to where the screen reader has focus, you just left click.

Masking the mouse movement area on a mousepad with a sheet of slightly heavy cardboard (file folder thickness or a bit more) is the equivalent of taping over the optical port on a real mouse.  It gives you access to the real left and right mouse click buttons without fear of moving the mouse pointer.

Some of this also depends, of course, on how you were trained and whether or not you may have once had sight.  There has been a lot of training over the years that you almost got your hand slapped if you tried to touch a mouse or mouse pad (which I think is a mistake, see above), but if you are already basically a keyboard-only user, and comfortable with it, then why change?  But many (most, actually) of my clients over the years are individuals who became blind as adults, and had years of computer use use under their belts, and it is as natural to them to use the "click" part of a mouse or mousepad as breathing, even though they cannot and should not use the point part (as a general rule).

I've also taught a couple of steady-handed people how to do the mouse equivalent of visually scanning the screen, with a regular mouse, as you can sometimes discover things more quickly that way.  It's not common, but.  The way screen readers work with virtual cursors very often means that things are loaded in a way that is quite different than the actual visual layout of the screen, and in most cases that visual layout is what it is to guide the sighted user to things more quickly.  When something that's visually near the top of the screen ends up being the 45th item you'd tab to, and presuming you have no prior experience with a given site, it can take a lot longer to find that it's there than a careful "mouse scan" of the screen will sometimes get you if mouse tracking is turned on.

There is, truly, more than one way to get a result, and there are ways that thouse without sight can use both prepared mice or mousepads or just regular ones, with the latter being a rare thing in comparison to the former.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

The poor wish to be rich, the rich wish to be happy, the single wish to be married, and the married wish to be dead.

       ~ Ann Landers


Re: What’s the most common reason for NVDA speech to stop completely

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I don't think it's totally gone yet until June of next year. Microsoft is slowly dropping support for it though.

On 8/5/2021 9:43 AM, Rob Hudson wrote:
I believe IE is already gone as of .. May, I think?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim M" <mrgarff@...>
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 12:24:27 -0400
Subject: Re: [chat] What’s the most common reason for NVDA speech to stop completely

Just wait for the emails on lists when they auto remove IE ikons and short cuts.

Sorry, people but Microsoft is going to change you wither you like it or not.


On 8/4/2021 6:54 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 06:45 PM, Gene wrote:
It won’t be gone.  -
It will. I posted a notice about this, with the direct references from Microsoft, in the main NVDA group and several others because it is important that people know this.  I'm not going to tolerate any misinformation that implies that IE is not going to be gone, as in pulled from all currently supported versions of Windows 10, in the very near future.

One pertinent segment from the article on BleepingComputer entitled, Microsoft 365 drops support for Internet Explorer 11 in August, which refers to a change coming up a mere 17 days from now, but which covers end of life in Windows 10/11:
IE11 to reach EOS on some Windows 10 versions next year

This reminder comes after Microsoft first announced plans to ditch support for the Microsoft Edge Legacy and Internet Explorer 11 web browsers in Windows 10 and Microsoft 365.

Following that initial announcement, Microsoft Teams had already dropped support for Internet Explorer 11 on November 30, 2020.

Two months ago, Redmond also revealed that it would also retire the legacy browser on some Windows 10 versions on June 15, 2022, replacing it with the new Chromium-based Microsoft Edge.

After being retired on systems running Windows 10 client SKUs (version 20H2 and later) and Windows 10 IoT (version 20H2 and later), the Internet Explorer desktop app will be disabled, automatically redirecting users to Microsoft Edge when launched.

Enterprise organizations depending on legacy Internet Explorer-based websites and apps for critical processes can still use them with Microsoft Edge's IE mode (more info available in this Getting Started guide.)

In related news, WordPress, the most popular blogging platform, also announced in March 2021 that it is planning to drop support for Internet Explorer 11 as the browser's usage has already dipped below 1%.




Re: What’s the most common reason for NVDA speech to stop completely

Rob Hudson <rob_hudson3182@...>
 

I believe IE is already gone as of .. May, I think?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim M" <mrgarff@...>
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 12:24:27 -0400
Subject: Re: [chat] Whats the most common reason for NVDA speech to stop completely

Just wait for the emails on lists when they auto remove IE ikons and short cuts.

Sorry, people but Microsoft is going to change you wither you like it or not.


On 8/4/2021 6:54 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 06:45 PM, Gene wrote:
It wont be gone. -
It will. I posted a notice about this, with the direct references from Microsoft, in the main NVDA group and several others because it is important that people know this. I'm not going to tolerate any misinformation that implies that IE is not going to be gone, as in pulled from all currently supported versions of Windows 10, in the very near future.

One pertinent segment from the article on BleepingComputer entitled,Microsoft 365 drops support for Internet Explorer 11 in August, which refers to a change coming up a mere 17 days from now, but which covers end of life in Windows 10/11:
IE11 to reach EOS onsome Windows 10 versions next year

This reminder comes after Microsoft firstannounced plans to ditch supportfor the Microsoft Edge Legacy and Internet Explorer 11 web browsersin Windows 10and Microsoft 365.

Following that initial announcement,Microsoft Teams had already dropped supportfor Internet Explorer 11 on November 30, 2020.

Two months ago, Redmond also revealed that it would alsoretire the legacy browser on some Windows 10 versionson June 15, 2022, replacing it with the new Chromium-based Microsoft Edge.

After being retired on systems runningWindows 10 client SKUs (version 20H2 and later) andWindows 10 IoT (version 20H2 and later),the Internet Explorer desktop app will bedisabled, automatically redirecting users toMicrosoft Edge when launched.

Enterprise organizations depending on legacy Internet Explorer-based websites and apps for critical processes can still use them withMicrosoft Edge'sIE mode(more info available in thisGetting Started guide.)

In related news,WordPress, the most popular blogging platform, also announced in March 2021 that itis planning todropsupport for Internet Explorer 11as the browser's usage has already dippedbelow 1%.




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