I’m sure that this question has been asked many times before but I was just wondering what I should consider when purchasing a new laptop, mainstream laptop reviews aren’t  particularly useful to me with their focus on high-end gaming machines with graphics and GPU performance.
for reference, I’m considering purchasing an Asus Zen book 14 with 512 SSD, 16 gigs of RAM and a core I five AND chip,  but I was wondering if having more RAM will make NVDA faster, what about the difference between Intel and the other competitor And, and are there any other things I should consider? 
I don’t want to buy a machine that’s over Specht, but at the same time buying a new laptop is quite a rare occurrence for me so I’m going to try and get the most bang for my buck, it will mostly be used for productivity for work and a number of Microsoft apps, along with CallCenter software.

 

On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 09:48 AM, Khalid Anwar wrote:

I’m considering purchasing an Asus Zen book 14 with 512 SSD, 16 gigs of RAM and a core I five AND chip,  but I was wondering if having more RAM will make NVDA faster

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16 GB of RAM is way more than is needed to have NVDA run very smoothly and quickly, but 16 GB is becoming a fairly common specification on computers above entry level these days.  I have 12 GB on mine and when I use NVDA it has no problem and it's running with at least 4 web browsers, with tens of tabs each open, along with MS-Word, usually with several documents open.

It has been a very long time now since "the average user" has come anywhere near to using the computing power available in modern processors that aren't designed for netbook use.  Any of the current Intel Core iX processors should be more than up to the task of running NVDA and AMD's Ryzen series and upper end A series APUs (A10 or A12) do fine, too.  The laptop I'm typing from has an A12-9700P APU and handles NVDA with ease.

These days, though 8 GB is the bare minimum RAM I recommend whether NVDA is involved or not, and it's better to have 12 or 16, depending on what your "next RAM step up" happens to be.

If you're looking for the biggest bang for your buck, and the best quality you can get for those bucks, you should consider refurbished business-class units.  Refurbished units sold by their original makers, e.g., HP, Dell, are virtually indistinguishable from new and can be had for significant savings.  And business class hardware is definitely more durable than what gets sold at Best Buy, Walmart, and the like that's aimed at the consumer market, and particularly the lower end of the consumer market.

I always suggest that anyone considering a laptop make the effort to go to a brick and mortar store and play around with either the exact model they're considering or one of its "very close cousins" as far as the keyboard is concerned.  This is particularly important if you happen to be transitioning to a laptop from a desktop system.  Yes, you can use an external keyboard with a laptop, and at home that might make sense, but if you ever anticipate "taking with" then it's important to have the built-in keyboard be comfortable for you.  I was just working on a client's brand new Dell laptop (I can't recall which model) and I absolutely despised the keyboard on that one, and I generally just adapt instantly.  And, of course, if you're used to using desktop keyboard layout then make sure you are looking at a unit that has a full-sized keyboard that includes the number pad on it, and these days for laptops with 15" and larger screens, the majority do, but always check.
 
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.

        ~ Mark Twain

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On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 09:46 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I'd be looking at a machine which can RUN Windows 11, even if you don't want to right now.

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Absolutely.  And that means, if you're looking at a machine with an Intel i-series processor, you want 8th generation (after the iX dash will be a number that's at least 8000) or newer.

It's interesting to me just how quickly computer makers have adopted Windows 11.  It is becoming very difficult to find anything other than Windows 11 unless you either special order or find new old stock machines.  I knew it would be adopted relatively quickly, but this time it's breakneck speed.  Part of that, though, is because for all practical intents and purposes Windows 11 is what would be called by many developers "a fork of Windows 10."   It is not fundamentally different than Windows 10, but Windows 8 and 8.1 were fundamentally different than Windows 7, and Windows 10 was significantly different than Windows 8/8.1.
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.

        ~ Mark Twain

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 12:25 PM, Janet Brandly wrote:

home, end, page-up and page-down keys are essential.

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Not arguing this, just noting that on laptops with a full sized keyboard I've never seen one where these were not dedicated keys.  Most of the time they're going to be the 4 keys that run across the very top of the number pad area, and will be thin like the function keys that are above the main keyboard are.

If someone knows of a full-sized keyboard laptop where there are not dedicated keys for home, end, page up, and page down please let me know, as I've never encountered one.
 
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.

        ~ Mark Twain

Brian, its that way with a lot of stuff.

You must remember that manufacturers will always put ou  the latest.

Also remember that the rtm release happens a little before the actual main release so the manufacturers are usually ready by then.

Right now for example if you run say lenovo you can run win10 or 11 and its free either way.

Right now I'd get the ability to downgrade at least.

Reviews say that win11 release 1 some bits were not accepted like the task bar and some drag and drop stuff.

Microsoft will be and is currently roling back stuff the users don't want so maybe this year it will be better it seems that is what the articles say.

You can get systems built with win10 still and will be till the next 5 or so years.

Interestingly accoung to some hidden non released stuff microsoft may be releasing windows 12 in the next 2 years so who knows.

If they go 12 in 5 years I may end up with that one rather than 11.

To be honest bar linux and android there really isn't any real need to go win11 at all.

One reason I wouldn't is the fact some items like the ability to change shortcuts from the go to location menu is no longer there in 11.

I use this all the time when changing a key conflict for one thing I test.

Fact is though that win11 hasen't taken a good slog not much more than 10.

And there are plenty of reasons to use 10 for now more than 11.

You lose some features for well not much to gain.

Put it this way there hasn't been any real articles on anything huge coming up except that alt plus tab may becoming a little smarter but thats if you want that.

So right now if you get win11 make sure you are able to downgrade back to win10 even if you need to reformat and do it.

You don't want to find you don't have the licence for it.

When I got my first vista unit I made sure it had a downgrade recovery back to xp and used it.

As for what happens after 5 years, I think that may depend on the actual user weather all the security is that important.

Certainly I don't see any user on my local or extended network moving past 10 no matter its security status.

Most of those on my network have semi old to medium aged systems.

Most of them bar myself are in their 60s, a few are 70+.

None of them want to learn a completely new and potentially problematic and supposedly more secured os at their age.

Some of them don't even have newer systems and some only need certain things for certain things.

As for myself I have no desire to upgrade right now.

And if push came to shove I'd reformat and downgrade security be damned.

But microsoft has 4 years to make windows 11 work or try the next system if 12 comes.

Right now I am thinking about to concidder win11 vista like and run 12 and hope its better.

It seems to go through an up and down cycle.

win95-98 not withstanding both were good.

as well as 2000.

But windows me was bad, xp was good, vista wasn't 7 was, 8 wasn't 8.1 was ok.

Windows 10 is good, windows 11 isn't so I should be on a good release next version should being the thing here.

Shaun,

You are the absolute worst when it comes to reading into things nothing that was said or implied.

I said nothing about the fitness of Windows 11 versus Windows 10, I just observed what's happening "in the wild."

Also, now that I've got some experience, though limited, with Windows 11 my concerns about it and accessibility have been almost entirely allayed.  I would not encourage anyone who gets a system that comes with Windows 11 to downgrade to Windows 10 as a matter of course.  Just as I have told Windows 10 users who could upgrade to Windows 11 that I would not recommend doing so until at least 6 months has elapsed from its release date, and that's just as a precaution.

Everything has bugs.  Microsoft addresses OS bugs, including accessibility bugs, reasonably quickly regardless of the version of Windows, provided it's under support.

There's no reason to rush into a new version of Windows if you don't have to but there's equally no reason to rush out of a newer version of Windows if you already have it and don't have to.

Why you believe Windows 11 is "not good" is not clear.  The tech community doesn't share that viewpoint, yet it did with the others you list.  You're at odds with this admittedly odd exception to the good-bad back and forth with Windows.

You also need to get your head into the era of Windows As A Service.  Once Windows 10 hit the market the old paradigm we all knew and loved (or hated) for updates, service packs, and versions went with it.  Windows 11 is a direct progression of Windows 10 that started out its life intended to be Windows 10 Version 21H2.  It is in no way similar to the difference between 7 and 8/8.1 or 8.1 and 10.  It's essentially a fork of Windows 10, and if there is a Windows 12 my money is on it being a fork of Windows 11.
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.

        ~ Mark Twain

Adding a few thoughts here, since I've used PCS since DOS version two! First, it used to be that a cheap laptop would suffice, A slow processor wasn't a problem then.
But ever since most of our apps are web-based, I've found that screen readers take a big processor hit when they have to continually refresh the offscreen model. So when I've had to use a laptop with a slower processor for the past ten years or so, I've found it very painful. The response time of the screen reader becomes very sluggish on any website that has any interactivity. Also Office is dreadfully slow.
So even though you see all these great deals, laptops priced at $200 (that's American dollars) avoid them like the plague. I think it's better to save up for a while and get something with a processor that's fast enough to enable you to use all modern applications without latency.
I think I'm less worried about the keyboard than many folks. I decided long ago to get cheap desktop keyboards and connect them to my laptop at home, and a Bluetooth keyboard I really like for traveling. So I just don't use the laptop's keyboard.
Or at least I didn't until my employer gave me a Dell Latitude 5420. I just love its keyboard. It's a business model, and clearly, Dell realized people would be doing extended typing on it. And it's just a 13-inch screen laptop -- very light. And fast. On the open market it is $1300, but likely my employer buying in bulk, paid a lot less. 
I echo Brian's comments about getting a refurbished business model if your budget cannot take a new one. And there's a lot less crapware on them as well.
Laptops I bought from consumer stores were full of bloatware software I didn't want and had to uninstall. The business Dell though had only a few small apps I needed to remove. 
I also echo the thing with RAM. If you don't have enough, each time Windows needs to use virtual memory -- ram content cached to disk, it gets super slow. And if you have multiple apps open, it's a huge pain. If you tend not to multitask very often you can get away with less ram, but right now I have several browser windows open, Cisco jabber, Outlook, a word document and a spreadsheet.  On a desktop you can get someone to easily and fairly cheaply add ram but it's not so easy or inexpensive on a laptop, which is why the manufacturers know they can charge more for increasing the ram on a laptop. 
My husband is an electrical engineer, so I bought a laptop once that had minimal ram, but I knew it was user serviceable and he could purchase and add more ram for me at a much lower cost. If you don't have a pet engineer handy, you have to pay more, sadly.
Lastly, remember too that screen readers themselves consume memory especially if they are dealing with very interactive apps.  
I'd also say arm yourself with a good set of wireless headphones so if you type for extended periods you can easily get up and move around. It's not good for your body to sit for hours.  

On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 12:00 PM, Deborah Armstrong wrote:

First, it used to be that a cheap laptop would suffice, A slow processor wasn't a problem then.

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It has, however, been ages since this was true, particularly the processor part.  I agree that a Walmart special for $200 with what's probably a Celeron processor in it is never going to be any good for a screen reader user.

But by the time you get to the $400 to $500 range, if it's got an Intel Core (the i-series) processor and at least 12 GB of RAM, you'll probably be OK if you're an average user.  Anything i5 and above in currently available Intel processors is just fine and the AMD Ryzen series, even the old ones, are, too.

With the exception of "bottom of the barrel" ultra-cheap machines, processing power has become far less of an issue in general because all modern processors are very powerful in comparison to those of even 5 or 10 years ago.  Sufficient RAM (min: 12 GB and max necessary for most probably 16 GB) and an SSD will both be things that speed up the machine from the perspective of end-user experience far more than excess processing power does.
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged.  One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

    ~ John Rogers

The problem with that is that if you buy more expensive and more powerful machines than you need, matching the specifications will cause you to continue to spend more money than is necessary.  I'm not saying there is anything wrong with printing out the specifications of the machine to show a salesperson but I think that discussing how you intend to use the machine and getting suggestions on lists like this would be far better than matching specifications of a current machine. 

Gene

I can definitely say that if you have say, any 2015 machine with a standard hard drive, the ssd is a real shock to the a system, on how much faster it does stuff.

I only have 8 gigs of memory, but have seen no real impact to speed for most of the pretty boring software I run. I'd also say that I find laptops annoying as the keyboards are too flat and keys close together for my older fingers to be accurate on. Definitely having a full size keyboard is good for me.
Each to their own of course, but I do not have a monitor on my desktop. I use a TV through an HDMI adaptor if I need to get a sighted person involved.

Brian

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