Hello All.

Is there a good tutorial for using Google Webmail Interface? I currently use TB. However! Since it upgraded to version 102, it works very strangely. I do have Microsoft 365. But, I'm not sure Outlook works all that well, and how much of a learning curve will be involved in using Outlook?

I am an NVDA user and I do have JAWS on my PC.

Thank You For all your helpful suggestions!

😎

First, why not use what you prefer?  I see no reason that you have to use the current version of Thunderbird.  People are using Windows Live Mail, which hasn't been updated in years.

I belong to three general blindness technology lists.  I've belonged to one since the late Nineties, and two for a number of years.  I don't recall once seeing anyone say that they were infected by using an old e-mail program.  If you use a really old program, that may be a bad idea.  But you don't have to keep a modern e-mail program current.

If you explain what you don't like about the current version, we may be able to show you ways around what you don't like that will make the program as convenient or nearly as convenient as it was before.

Before taking time to get used to another way of working with e-mail when you evidently were very satisfied with Thunderbird until now, I hope you will do one or the other of these things:
Either revert to an earlier version and not allow the program to update, or discuss what you don't like so we can tell you if we know workarounds.

Gene

On 7/6/2022 6:58 PM, Carlos wrote:

Hello All.

Is there a good tutorial for using Google Webmail Interface? I currently use TB. However! Since it upgraded to version 102, it works very strangely. I do have Microsoft 365. But, I'm not sure Outlook works all that well, and how much of a learning curve will be involved in using Outlook?

I am an NVDA user and I do have JAWS on my PC.

Thank You For all your helpful suggestions!

😎

Where can I go to get version 91.x which was the version prior to the version 102 update?

Version 102 is very verbose and gives NVDA and JAWS repeated info, as well as not reading messages properly. So! I would like to downgrade to a the prior version of TB, or, use an alternative to read my messages.

Thank You For all your assistance!

On 7/6/2022 5:40 PM, Gene wrote:

First, why not use what you prefer?  I see no reason that you have to use the current version of Thunderbird.  People are using Windows Live Mail, which hasn't been updated in years.

I belong to three general blindness technology lists.  I've belonged to one since the late Nineties, and two for a number of years.  I don't recall once seeing anyone say that they were infected by using an old e-mail program.  If you use a really old program, that may be a bad idea.  But you don't have to keep a modern e-mail program current.

If you explain what you don't like about the current version, we may be able to show you ways around what you don't like that will make the program as convenient or nearly as convenient as it was before.

Before taking time to get used to another way of working with e-mail when you evidently were very satisfied with Thunderbird until now, I hope you will do one or the other of these things:
Either revert to an earlier version and not allow the program to update, or discuss what you don't like so we can tell you if we know workarounds.

Gene

On 7/6/2022 6:58 PM, Carlos wrote:

Hello All.

Is there a good tutorial for using Google Webmail Interface? I currently use TB. However! Since it upgraded to version 102, it works very strangely. I do have Microsoft 365. But, I'm not sure Outlook works all that well, and how much of a learning curve will be involved in using Outlook?

I am an NVDA user and I do have JAWS on my PC.

Thank You For all your helpful suggestions!

😎

You can find old versions here:
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/

It isn't clear to me how you revert.  I looked at a page and read some of the discussion but it looks to me as though the discussion makes it far more complicated than it needs to be.  My guess is that if you copy your current profile somewhere else, uninstall your current version, uninstall the one you want to use, then paste the profile you saved into the program, you should have everything restored.  But that is my guess and I don't know where you find the profile. 

Others who have done this will, I hope discuss the question further.

Until you get more information, you may want to download the version of Thunderbird you want to use, but you may not want to do anything more until further discussion.

This is the page that looks to me as though it greatly complicates things, in case you want to look at it, but don't be discouraged.  You may well see discussion that makes reverting simple.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1277353

Also, when you install the old version, disconnect from the Internet first.  Then, after you install the program, set it to let you know about updates but let you decide whether to install them.

If you don't know how to change the setting, I'll send instructions.

Gene

On 7/6/2022 8:00 PM, Carlos wrote:

Where can I go to get version 91.x which was the version prior to the version 102 update?

Version 102 is very verbose and gives NVDA and JAWS repeated info, as well as not reading messages properly. So! I would like to downgrade to a the prior version of TB, or, use an alternative to read my messages.

Thank You For all your assistance!

On 7/6/2022 5:40 PM, Gene wrote:

First, why not use what you prefer?  I see no reason that you have to use the current version of Thunderbird.  People are using Windows Live Mail, which hasn't been updated in years.

I belong to three general blindness technology lists.  I've belonged to one since the late Nineties, and two for a number of years.  I don't recall once seeing anyone say that they were infected by using an old e-mail program.  If you use a really old program, that may be a bad idea.  But you don't have to keep a modern e-mail program current.

If you explain what you don't like about the current version, we may be able to show you ways around what you don't like that will make the program as convenient or nearly as convenient as it was before.

Before taking time to get used to another way of working with e-mail when you evidently were very satisfied with Thunderbird until now, I hope you will do one or the other of these things:
Either revert to an earlier version and not allow the program to update, or discuss what you don't like so we can tell you if we know workarounds.

Gene

On 7/6/2022 6:58 PM, Carlos wrote:

Hello All.

Is there a good tutorial for using Google Webmail Interface? I currently use TB. However! Since it upgraded to version 102, it works very strangely. I do have Microsoft 365. But, I'm not sure Outlook works all that well, and how much of a learning curve will be involved in using Outlook?

I am an NVDA user and I do have JAWS on my PC.

Thank You For all your helpful suggestions!

😎

You can find old versions here:
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/

It isn't clear to me how you revert.  I looked at a page and read some of the discussion but it looks to me as though the discussion makes it far more complicated than it needs to be.  My guess is that if you copy your current profile somewhere else, uninstall your current version, uninstall the one you want to use, then paste the profile you saved into the program, you should have everything restored.  But that is my guess and I don't know where you find the profile. 

Others who have done this will, I hope discuss the question further.

Until you get more information, you may want to download the version of Thunderbird you want to use, but you may not want to do anything more until further discussion.

This is the page that looks to me as though it greatly complicates things, in case you want to look at it, but don't be discouraged.  You may well see discussion that makes reverting simple.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1277353

Also, when you install the old version, disconnect from the Internet first.  Then, after you install the program, set it to let you know about updates but let you decide whether to install them.

If you don't know how to change the setting, I'll send instructions.

Gene

On 7/6/2022 8:00 PM, Carlos wrote:

Where can I go to get version 91.x which was the version prior to the version 102 update?

Version 102 is very verbose and gives NVDA and JAWS repeated info, as well as not reading messages properly. So! I would like to downgrade to a the prior version of TB, or, use an alternative to read my messages.

Thank You For all your assistance!

On 7/6/2022 5:40 PM, Gene wrote:

First, why not use what you prefer?  I see no reason that you have to use the current version of Thunderbird.  People are using Windows Live Mail, which hasn't been updated in years.

I belong to three general blindness technology lists.  I've belonged to one since the late Nineties, and two for a number of years.  I don't recall once seeing anyone say that they were infected by using an old e-mail program.  If you use a really old program, that may be a bad idea.  But you don't have to keep a modern e-mail program current.

If you explain what you don't like about the current version, we may be able to show you ways around what you don't like that will make the program as convenient or nearly as convenient as it was before.

Before taking time to get used to another way of working with e-mail when you evidently were very satisfied with Thunderbird until now, I hope you will do one or the other of these things:
Either revert to an earlier version and not allow the program to update, or discuss what you don't like so we can tell you if we know workarounds.

Gene

On 7/6/2022 6:58 PM, Carlos wrote:

Hello All.

Is there a good tutorial for using Google Webmail Interface? I currently use TB. However! Since it upgraded to version 102, it works very strangely. I do have Microsoft 365. But, I'm not sure Outlook works all that well, and how much of a learning curve will be involved in using Outlook?

I am an NVDA user and I do have JAWS on my PC.

Thank You For all your helpful suggestions!

😎

I use Thunderbird portable and I don't know if the Profile folder will be in the same place in the installed version.
In the portable version, it is in the data folder.
Wherever it is, back it up somewhere outside of the program.
Then uninstall the program. 
Install the version you want to use and copy the profile folder in the same place as it was in the version you deleted.

While there may be something I don't know, that should work.  I tried it in a portable version of the program and all my information, my accounts, the addressbook, all my folders, were copied to the new program.  I sent test messages to both my accounts with the program and they were sent and received properly.

You may want to wait to see if the procedure I gave is verified by others.  Since I'm using the portable version, while I would expect the information to be correct for the installed version, except that perhaps the profile folder is in a different place, you may want to wait to be sure.
Gene

On 7/6/2022 8:41 PM, Gene wrote:

You can find old versions here:
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/

It isn't clear to me how you revert.  I looked at a page and read some of the discussion but it looks to me as though the discussion makes it far more complicated than it needs to be.  My guess is that if you copy your current profile somewhere else, uninstall your current version, uninstall the one you want to use, then paste the profile you saved into the program, you should have everything restored.  But that is my guess and I don't know where you find the profile. 

Others who have done this will, I hope discuss the question further.

Until you get more information, you may want to download the version of Thunderbird you want to use, but you may not want to do anything more until further discussion.

This is the page that looks to me as though it greatly complicates things, in case you want to look at it, but don't be discouraged.  You may well see discussion that makes reverting simple.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1277353

Also, when you install the old version, disconnect from the Internet first.  Then, after you install the program, set it to let you know about updates but let you decide whether to install them.

If you don't know how to change the setting, I'll send instructions.

Gene

On 7/6/2022 8:00 PM, Carlos wrote:

Where can I go to get version 91.x which was the version prior to the version 102 update?

Version 102 is very verbose and gives NVDA and JAWS repeated info, as well as not reading messages properly. So! I would like to downgrade to a the prior version of TB, or, use an alternative to read my messages.

Thank You For all your assistance!

On 7/6/2022 5:40 PM, Gene wrote:

First, why not use what you prefer?  I see no reason that you have to use the current version of Thunderbird.  People are using Windows Live Mail, which hasn't been updated in years.

I belong to three general blindness technology lists.  I've belonged to one since the late Nineties, and two for a number of years.  I don't recall once seeing anyone say that they were infected by using an old e-mail program.  If you use a really old program, that may be a bad idea.  But you don't have to keep a modern e-mail program current.

If you explain what you don't like about the current version, we may be able to show you ways around what you don't like that will make the program as convenient or nearly as convenient as it was before.

Before taking time to get used to another way of working with e-mail when you evidently were very satisfied with Thunderbird until now, I hope you will do one or the other of these things:
Either revert to an earlier version and not allow the program to update, or discuss what you don't like so we can tell you if we know workarounds.

Gene

On 7/6/2022 6:58 PM, Carlos wrote:

Hello All.

Is there a good tutorial for using Google Webmail Interface? I currently use TB. However! Since it upgraded to version 102, it works very strangely. I do have Microsoft 365. But, I'm not sure Outlook works all that well, and how much of a learning curve will be involved in using Outlook?

I am an NVDA user and I do have JAWS on my PC.

Thank You For all your helpful suggestions!

😎

First, why not use what you prefer? I see no reason that you have to
use the current version of Thunderbird. People are using Windows Live
Mail, which hasn't been updated in years.

I belong to three general blindness technology lists. I've belonged to
one since the late Nineties, and two for a number of years. I don't
recall once seeing anyone say that they were infected by using an old
e-mail program. If you use a really old program, that may be a bad
idea. But you don't have to keep a modern e-mail program current.

If you explain what you don't like about the current version, we may be
able to show you ways around what you don't like that will make the
program as convenient or nearly as convenient as it was before.

Before taking time to get used to another way of working with e-mail
when you evidently were very satisfied with Thunderbird until now, I
hope you will do one or the other of these things:
Either revert to an earlier version and not allow the program to update,
or discuss what you don't like so we can tell you if we know workarounds.

Gene

On 7/6/2022 6:58 PM, Carlos wrote:

Hello All.

Is there a good tutorial for using Google Webmail Interface? I
currently use TB. However! Since it upgraded to version 102, it works
very strangely. I do have Microsoft 365. But, I'm not sure Outlook
works all that well, and how much of a learning curve will be involved
in using Outlook?

I am an NVDA user and I do have JAWS on my PC.

Thank You For all your helpful suggestions!

😎

this case Outlook Express, and no other. Sadly the quirky nature of Googles email seems to have altered in that on the phone, which I think uses Imap, it will have all mail deleted when you download them on the pc as pop3 even if you indicate in the software to leave a copy on the server, instead they all end up in allmail folder on the phone including emails you have sent out.
Is there some flag one can manually adjust on the Google site that allows

I use Thunderbird portable and I don't know if the Profile folder will
be in the same place in the installed version.
In the portable version, it is in the data folder.
Wherever it is, back it up somewhere outside of the program.
Then uninstall the program.
Install the version you want to use and copy the profile folder in the
same place as it was in the version you deleted.

While there may be something I don't know, that should work. I tried it
in a portable version of the program and all my information, my
accounts, the addressbook, all my folders, were copied to the new
program. I sent test messages to both my accounts with the program and
they were sent and received properly.

You may want to wait to see if the procedure I gave is verified by
others. Since I'm using the portable version, while I would expect the
information to be correct for the installed version, except that perhaps
the profile folder is in a different place, you may want to wait to be sure.
Gene

On 7/6/2022 8:41 PM, Gene wrote:

You can find old versions here:
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/

It isn't clear to me how you revert. I looked at a page and read some
of the discussion but it looks to me as though the discussion makes it
far more complicated than it needs to be. My guess is that if you
copy your current profile somewhere else, uninstall your current
version, uninstall the one you want to use, then paste the profile you
saved into the program, you should have everything restored. But that
is my guess and I don't know where you find the profile.

Others who have done this will, I hope discuss the question further.

Until you get more information, you may want to download the version
of Thunderbird you want to use, but you may not want to do anything
more until further discussion.

This is the page that looks to me as though it greatly complicates
things, in case you want to look at it, but don't be discouraged. You
may well see discussion that makes reverting simple.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1277353

Also, when you install the old version, disconnect from the Internet
first. Then, after you install the program, set it to let you know
about updates but let you decide whether to install them.

If you don't know how to change the setting, I'll send instructions.

Gene
On 7/6/2022 8:00 PM, Carlos wrote:

Where can I go to get version 91.x which was the version prior to the
version 102 update?

Version 102 is very verbose and gives NVDA and JAWS repeated info, as
well as not reading messages properly. So! I would like to downgrade
to a the prior version of TB, or, use an alternative to read my messages.

Thank You For all your assistance!


On 7/6/2022 5:40 PM, Gene wrote:

First, why not use what you prefer? I see no reason that you have
to use the current version of Thunderbird. People are using Windows
Live Mail, which hasn't been updated in years.

I belong to three general blindness technology lists. I've belonged
to one since the late Nineties, and two for a number of years. I
don't recall once seeing anyone say that they were infected by using
an old e-mail program. If you use a really old program, that may be
a bad idea. But you don't have to keep a modern e-mail program current.

If you explain what you don't like about the current version, we may
be able to show you ways around what you don't like that will make
the program as convenient or nearly as convenient as it was before.

Before taking time to get used to another way of working with e-mail
when you evidently were very satisfied with Thunderbird until now, I
hope you will do one or the other of these things:
Either revert to an earlier version and not allow the program to
update, or discuss what you don't like so we can tell you if we know
workarounds.

Gene

On 7/6/2022 6:58 PM, Carlos wrote:

Hello All.

Is there a good tutorial for using Google Webmail Interface? I
currently use TB. However! Since it upgraded to version 102, it
works very strangely. I do have Microsoft 365. But, I'm not sure
Outlook works all that well, and how much of a learning curve will
be involved in using Outlook?

I am an NVDA user and I do have JAWS on my PC.

Thank You For all your helpful suggestions!

😎

As an aside to this. I finally managed to coax even Outlook Express to work with Gmail. You to create a one time password and somehow that seems to mean that your normal password then only allow that machine to be used with in this case Outlook Express, and no other. Sadly the quirky nature of Googles email seems to  have altered in that on the phone, which I think uses Imap, it will have all mail deleted when you download them on the pc as pop3 even if you indicate in the software to leave a copy on the server, instead they all end up in allmail folder on the phone including emails you have sent out.
Is there some flag one can manually adjust on  the Google site that allows this to act as it used to, I wonder? Its workable but its trying to be far too clever  for me!

Brian

It might actually be a good policy to have a portable version so it can be much easer, later to bring it over to another computer without having loads of set up to do.
Brian

Why not just use IMAP on the PC? You shouldn't really mix POP3 and IMAP.

If you use IMAP everywhere, you won't have this problem.

Luke

Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:

this case Outlook Express, and no other. Sadly the quirky nature of Googles email seems to have altered in that on the phone, which I think uses Imap, it will have all mail deleted when you download them on the pc as pop3 even if you indicate in the software to leave a copy on the server, instead they all end up in allmail folder on the phone including emails you have sent out.
Is there some flag one can manually adjust on the Google site that allows

Have you tried using IMAP with Outlook Express or another e-mail
program? You should have no meaningful difference in looking at mail.
It appears, however, that you should use not shift delete, but delete
when deleting mail using Outlook Express and probably other e-mail
programs as well. That is true of Thunderbird and it is likely true in
general.

If you use shift delete, mail you have looked at will go to the all mail
folder. That means it will pile up in your account, taking more and
more room until you manually delete it in the web interface.
You can avoid this problem by just using delete by itself. If you do
that, mail you want to delete is moved to trash. In Trash, a message is
deleted thirty days after it arrives, So mail doesn't accumulate in your
account and you don't have to use the web interface to manually remove it.

As far as message rules are concerned, I don't know enough about them to
comment. I believe Thunderbird lets you create message rules but I
don't know if Outlook Express does using an IMAP account.

As far as why mail goes to all mail now when you download it with pop,
are you sure it isn't going to trash, that is the default, you can
change this behavior in settings in the web interface.
Open settings, and press enter on the tab that says Forwarding POP/IMAP.
Look for text in the settings that says, "2. When messages are accessed
with POP"
Below that text is a combo box where you change what GMail does when
mail is downloaded using POP. The leave messages on server setting in
e-mail programs doesn't apply. It is the GMail setting that determines
what is done. One of the choices is to leave mail in the inbox.

Using an application specific password doesn't restrict you in using
another machine nor does it restrict you from using the auth2
authorization on other machines or even on the current machine with
other e-mail programs that support auth2.

You may have to remove the account from other programs, if you were
using an application specific password before in those other programs
and recreate the account not using it, using your regular password.

Gene

On 7/7/2022 2:25 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:

As an aside to this. I finally managed to coax even Outlook Express to
work with Gmail. You to create a one time password and somehow that
seems to mean that your normal password then only allow that machine
to be used with in this case Outlook Express, and no other. Sadly the
quirky nature of Googles email seems to have altered in that on the
phone, which I think uses Imap, it will have all mail deleted when you
download them on the pc as pop3 even if you indicate in the software
to leave a copy on the server, instead they all end up in allmail
folder on the phone including emails you have sent out.
Is there some flag one can manually adjust on the Google site that
allows this to act as it used to, I wonder? Its workable but its
trying to be far too clever for me!

Brian

Well because if I do, I still get silly interreaelated problems.
I want the old behaviour of it being on both marked as read or moved differently on both.
I can see no way to achieve this. I prefer pop 3 except you cannot see the spam folder. I've been running other companies email with mixed types for many  years, its only google since start of June that seems to insist on what I would term illogical behaviour.
Never used to be this way.
Brian

Well because if I do, I still get silly interreaelated problems.
I want the old behaviour of it being on both marked as read or moved differently on both.
I can see no way to achieve this. I prefer pop 3 except you cannot see the spam folder. I've been running other companies email with mixed types for many  years, its only google since start of June that seems to insist on what I would term illogical behaviour.
Never used to be this way.
Brian

There are two possible causes for your problems.  One is that you are using POP for one program and IMAP for another.  Use IMAP for everything.  If you look at mail on one device and leave all messages in the inbox you want to remain there, the other program will show exactly the same messages when you open it.

Another possible cause of the problem is that you are using a program with an application specific password.  We don't know if that is causing any problems.  You need to try using IMAP with both programs and see if there are discrepancies that shouldn't exist.

If there are, it means you need to stop Using Outlook Express and use Thunderbird or another program that doesn't require an application specific password to end the discrepancies.

Gene

On 7/7/2022 9:40 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:

Well because if I do, I still get silly interreaelated problems.
I want the old behaviour of it being on both marked as read or moved differently on both.
I can see no way to achieve this. I prefer pop 3 except you cannot see the spam folder. I've been running other companies email with mixed types for many  years, its only google since start of June that seems to insist on what I would term illogical behaviour.
Never used to be this way.
Brian