On obtaining Windows and program information


Brian's Mail list account
 

Just being a little flippant, it rather reminds me of that quote there are known unknowns and unknown unknowns etc. grin.

It is so often true that you are not aware of what you ought to know until you ask. Its not a stupid question, its just gaining knowledge.
Brian

--
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
To: <chat@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2022 12:07 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] On obtaining Windows and program information


On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 06:52 PM, Gene wrote:


Assuming the questioner doesn't know something with no reason to make such
an assumption and providing a lot of information that might not be needed
would result in an enormous amount of unnecessary information in all sorts
of messages.
-
Indeed. And as someone for whom brevity is not a strong suit, in my earlier days on these forums I found myself hating my own replies because they were just too "irrelevant information rich" where the actual answer requested was buried.

I figured out, quickly, that most folks were not rank beginners, in any sense, and those that were tended to reveal that.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.*

~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


Brian's Mail list account
 

Yes, this text is often only readable, and not selectable in the traditional way. The navigation modes are ideal, but do be sure any button in that area is not the focus, or you will get a nice clipboard of OK or Close1!

Brian

--
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <chat@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2022 11:33 PM
Subject: [chat] On obtaining Windows and program information


I am continuing the discussion on the chat list because one important
aspect of the question was not discussed.

You can get the version of Windows and programs as discussed but after
that, you need to know how to copy the information to the clipboard,
which means using screen review or object navigation in NVDA and using
the NVDA f9 and NVDA f10 copy to clipboard function for instances where
there is no cursor or virtual cursor. You can also use the add-on that
allows you to copy text in such cases.

The reason I agree with Brian is that if you try to do too much for
people, you will discourage learning. There may be lots of other times
when you will want or need to know how to copy information from dialogs
to the clipboard or when you will want to review information in dialogs
without using the read dialog command and hearing perhaps a minute's
worth of material read to hear one line.

Therefore, aside from teaching use of the about dialog command and the
Winver command, the person can learn important other information and
further increase his/her ability as a Windows user when learning how to
get version information and copy it to the clipboard.

There is more to know than a sighted person needs to know because the
sighted person can cause the dialog to open and just look at what is
there. But it is important for blind computer users to know how to
review information in dialogs as well.

Gene





 

On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 06:52 PM, Gene wrote:
Assuming the questioner doesn't know something with no reason to make such an assumption and providing a lot of information that might not be needed would result in an enormous amount of unnecessary information in all sorts of messages.
-
Indeed.  And as someone for whom brevity is not a strong suit, in my earlier days on these forums I found myself hating my own replies because they were just too "irrelevant information rich" where the actual answer requested was buried.

I figured out, quickly, that most folks were not rank beginners, in any sense, and those that were tended to reveal that.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

   ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


Gene
 

In cases where I think someone might not know something I often say something like, you will need to know this or that and then add, if you don't know, ask.  In a case like this, where a lot of people who ask would already know how to do what we are discussing, I might well not say that and wait to see if they ask.  There are times when I think someone might not know something but instead of spending time and work explaining something, I say something such as I discussed to invite them to ask but without going into how to do something.

Assuming the questioner doesn't know something with no reason to make such an assumption and providing a lot of information that might not be needed would result in an enormous amount of unnecessary information in all sorts of messages.

Gene

On 8/27/2022 5:40 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 06:33 PM, Gene wrote:
There is more to know than a sighted person needs to know because the sighted person can cause the dialog to open and just look at what is there.  But it is important for blind computer users to know how to review information in dialogs as well.
-
And this is, without question, absolutely true.

All of what follows isn't aimed at you Gene (though heaven knows I have in the past), but on any given tech support group I out and out refuse to treat questioners as though they should not know the basics.  I presume an NVDA user not asking about, say, screen review, I don't need to tell them about screen review for the winver dialog.  If they can't access the information after bringing it up for copy/paste, that should be the next question.

It makes sense to presume, on any technical list, that you have a fairly average user who has specific questions, unless the questioner clearly indicates otherwise in their query.

I cannot and will not presume that those using these groups are "blank slates" nor that every response requires step-by-step format.  You can often tell about "where the questioner is" and then pitch the response based on that.  If your pitch misses, it's incumbent on the questioner to then come back and ask for clarification.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

   ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.



 

On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 06:33 PM, Gene wrote:
There is more to know than a sighted person needs to know because the sighted person can cause the dialog to open and just look at what is there.  But it is important for blind computer users to know how to review information in dialogs as well.
-
And this is, without question, absolutely true.

All of what follows isn't aimed at you Gene (though heaven knows I have in the past), but on any given tech support group I out and out refuse to treat questioners as though they should not know the basics.  I presume an NVDA user not asking about, say, screen review, I don't need to tell them about screen review for the winver dialog.  If they can't access the information after bringing it up for copy/paste, that should be the next question.

It makes sense to presume, on any technical list, that you have a fairly average user who has specific questions, unless the questioner clearly indicates otherwise in their query.

I cannot and will not presume that those using these groups are "blank slates" nor that every response requires step-by-step format.  You can often tell about "where the questioner is" and then pitch the response based on that.  If your pitch misses, it's incumbent on the questioner to then come back and ask for clarification.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

   ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


Gene
 

I am continuing the discussion on the chat list because one important aspect of the question was not discussed.

You can get the version of Windows and programs as discussed but after that, you need to know how to copy the information to the clipboard, which means using screen review or object navigation in NVDA and using the NVDA f9 and NVDA f10 copy to clipboard function for instances where there is no cursor or virtual cursor.  You can also use the add-on that allows you to copy text in such cases.

The reason I agree with Brian is that if you try to do too much for people, you will discourage learning.  There may be lots of other times when you will want or need to know how to copy information from dialogs to the clipboard or when you will want to review information in dialogs without using the read dialog command and hearing perhaps a minute's worth of material read to hear one line.

Therefore, aside from teaching use of the about dialog command and the Winver command, the person can learn important other information and further increase his/her ability as a Windows user when learning how to get version information and copy it to the clipboard.

There is more to know than a sighted person needs to know because the sighted person can cause the dialog to open and just look at what is there.  But it is important for blind computer users to know how to review information in dialogs as well.

Gene