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Should I manually check for Windows updates
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Gene
You say they. It needs to be clarified that "they" doesn't refer to
Windows Updates, which Ninite doesn't download.
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Gene On 11/11/2022 12:45 PM, Dave Grossoehme
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David is this problem on the windows updater only? The reason I ask, is they can be downloaded from ninite.com. Have you tried that to see if the problem exist going that route? |
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Gene
I think this is a problem when an update is automatically being downloaded or when you manually download one. Evidently, the interface keeps showing messages about the progress of the update so quickly, one after the other, that NVDA keeps trying to read a message and then tries to read the next one before the first one is finished.
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I tried JAWS when I had this problem and it didn't do that. Gene On 11/11/2022 12:42 PM, Dave Grossoehme wrote:
Hi Bryan: I have noticed this problem even after the March 2nd update. If you are in the updates window and check for updates and one is found, then you need to shift tab right away to hear it's name, then the computer may go through the update quickly, that the full name isn't completed, before the machine jumps back to where you were before you shift + tab or you may be in the next place in that window where you can choose to stop updates for a week. |
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Dave Grossoehme
David is this problem on the windows updater only? The reason I ask, is they can be downloaded from ninite.com. Have you tried that to see if the problem exist going that route?
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Dave On 11/10/2022 3:24 AM, David Ingram wrote:
I would say, that if it is possible to perform the updates manually, then you should do so. At least, you will know if the update downloaded and installed. Also if you can, make sure that you don’t have thos culutive updates, i find those to be a problem especially those with the net framework if i’m not mistaken. I’ve encountered error messages when trying to update these specific updates to my windows 10 machine using 22H2 version of windows10On Nov 10, 2022, at 2:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io <bglists@...> wrote: |
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Dave Grossoehme
Hi Bryan: I have noticed this problem even after the March 2nd update. If you are in the updates window and check for updates and one is found, then you need to shift tab right away to hear it's name, then the computer may go through the update quickly, that the full name isn't completed, before the machine jumps back to where you were before you shift + tab or you may be in the next place in that window where you can choose to stop updates for a week.
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Dave On 11/10/2022 3:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:
Ah, I see. Its all a bit confusing on Windows 10, I find as last night it presented a n update, then updates to .net frameworks, but had optional updates for drivers etc. However when I left it on the updates window. NVDA, kept stammering and never actually reading anything in its entirety, making it hard to tell what it was actually doing. |
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David Ingram
What happens when you use jaws 2023 to perform the same updates manually? I think in some cases jaws 2023 is more responsive.
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On Nov 10, 2022, at 2:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io <bglists@...> wrote: |
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David Ingram
I would say, that if it is possible to perform the updates manually, then you should do so. At least, you will know if the update downloaded and installed. Also if you can, make sure that you don’t have thos culutive updates, i find those to be a problem especially those with the net framework if i’m not mistaken. I’ve encountered error messages when trying to update these specific updates to my windows 10 machine using 22H2 version of windows10
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On Nov 10, 2022, at 2:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io <bglists@...> wrote: |
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Brian's Mail list account
Ah, I see. Its all a bit confusing on Windows 10, I find as last night it presented a n update, then updates to .net frameworks, but had optional updates for drivers etc. However when I left it on the updates window. NVDA, kept stammering and never actually reading anything in its entirety, making it hard to tell what it was actually doing.
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Brian -- bglists@... Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media) Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...> To: <chat@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2022 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [chat] Should I manually check for Windows updates On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 04:34 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote: - I would never say "they just don't do anything" nor that they have a significantly greater probability of mucking the system up, I just don't need them. Many optional updates are "previews" of new features I just don't use, and they will eventually come in the form of a cumulative update or later Feature Update so I'm more than happy to wait until that occurs. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045 *There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.* ~ John Rogers |
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On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 04:34 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Are you saying they just don't do anything or are they more likely to muck stuff up?- I would never say "they just don't do anything" nor that they have a significantly greater probability of mucking the system up, I just don't need them. Many optional updates are "previews" of new features I just don't use, and they will eventually come in the form of a cumulative update or later Feature Update so I'm more than happy to wait until that occurs. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045 There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. ~ John Rogers |
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Brian's Mail list account
I was intrigued by your assertion that you never install optional updates. Why would this be?
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Are you saying they just don't do anything or are they more likely to muck stuff up? There did seem to be a flurry of updates last evening on all the various windows, even 7, so something was afoot, I'd imagine. Brian -- bglists@... Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media) Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...> To: <chat@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2022 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [chat] Should I manually check for Windows updates Gene, You may want to have a look at this Microsoft Page: *Description of the standard terminology that is used to describe Microsoft software updates* ( https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-client/deployment/standard-terminology-software-updates ) Even what get classed as critical updates are not "security critical" updates, which are in a class by themselves. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045 *There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.* ~ John Rogers |
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On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 12:17 PM, Gene wrote:
It appears, from what you are saying that I don't have to worry.- That's precisely what I'm saying. The only time an end user has to worry is if it appears that Windows Update itself has completely stopped functioning. That can happen, but is relatively rare. If it does, then steps to get that fixed need to be taken promptly. What I find most amusing here is that your are worrying about the right thing to worry about, actually keeping things up to date, while so often the opposite, "How do I keep {insert OS or application here} from updating?," is the question. It astounds me that even when a single update, once in way less than a blue moon, causes something like speech to stop working, that's taken as justification for stopping all updates, which is insane. Computers can and will have problems, like cars do and many other things do. You don't stop what is routine maintenance because every once in a very great while having done it has an unintended consequence. You're literally begging for big trouble by deferring necessary maintenance on virtually anything that requires it. Having a single bad to awful experience needs to be kept in perspective. It also points out why having backups is critical. You don't need them until you do need them, and if you don't have them then, it's too late. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045 There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. ~ John Rogers |
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Gene
I'll look at it.
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I was wondering whether my wait for about a week for Patch Tuesday updates was a lot longer than expected. Gene On 11/8/2022 11:21 AM, Brian Vogel
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Gene, |
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Gene
I'll look at it.
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I was wondering whether my wait for about a week for Patch Tuesday updates was a lot longer than expected. Gene On 11/8/2022 11:21 AM, Brian Vogel
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Gene, |
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Gene,
You may want to have a look at this Microsoft Page: Description of the standard terminology that is used to describe Microsoft software updates Even what get classed as critical updates are not "security critical" updates, which are in a class by themselves. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045 There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. ~ John Rogers |
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Gene
It appears, from what you are saying that I don't have to worry. If
what I'm saying isn't clear, I generally wait about a week for Patch
Tuesday updates.
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Gene On 11/8/2022 11:10 AM, Brian Vogel
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On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 12:01 PM, Gene wrote: |
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On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 12:01 PM, Gene wrote:
As far as I know, monthly updates usually contain critical patches. Is that correct?- For all practical intents and purposes, no. They will certainly contain any that may have been pushed out in what is commonly called a "Patch Tuesday" update, but the vast majority of users should have had that Patch Tuesday update applied around the time of its release. Critical patches, truly critical patches, are released standalone and as needed. They're quite rare. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045 There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. ~ John Rogers |
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Gene
Let me put it this way:
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For monthly updates, I don't get them for about a week. As far as I know, monthly updates usually contain critical patches. Is that correct? Gene On 11/8/2022 10:42 AM, Brian Vogel
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Gene, |
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Gene,
You can engage in what is called "seeker behavior" if you so choose. There is nothing unusual in what you're experiencing, other than it sounds like you've consistently never been a part of one of "the first cohorts" for any given update. In the age of Windows As A Service all updates, even critical security patches, are not sent out to every user at the same time. Critical security patches roll out in waves just like other updates do, but the time between successive waves for critical patches is on the order of hours, not days to weeks to months, like it is for other updates. It is common for cumulative updates and feature updates both to have roll out periods that span months. Monitoring of telemetry from those can be "much more leisurely" and much more thorough since they don't involve patching critical vulnerabilities. This sentence is confusing: " if I manually check for updates and I am offered the full update, can I not accept the full update when offered and accept the monthly ones?" All updates that are not of the "critical security patch" type are cumulative in nature. If you happen to have not applied a, say, cumulative update released in March, but are in an early cohort for one released in April, the one in April contains not only what's new to it, but also all of what's come before since the last Feature Update. Feature Updates are self-contained and include absolutely everything that has come since whatever version you have been running up to the release date of that Feature Update. My short advice is let Windows Update take care of itself, because it does. But if you want to check for updates, and are offered a Feature Update in the Windows Update pane when you do, then it's up to you whether you want to accept it at that moment or not. The only difference between doing this, and waiting, is that you don't get a notice from Windows Update that the Feature Update is available. It's presumed that you're actually looking at what has come up after doing a check for updates. And since Feature Updates do not apply without the end user activating the "Download and install" link that is shown for those (and for optional updates as well, which I never apply) those will sit there until you do activate that link. [Yes, there is an exception if you do not activate it and happen to be using a version of Windows 10 or 11 that is going out of support, but I have yet to have any user wait that long such that automatic updating occurs. This requires months and months of putting it off.] -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045 There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. ~ John Rogers |
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Gene
It appears that, consistently, I am offered Windows updates about a week after they are released. I know that if I manually check for updates, I can see them when they are released, at least that's my understanding. Does it matter if I wait or get them earlier?
Also, if I manually check for updates and I am offered the full update, can I not accept the full update when offered and accept the monthly ones? Gene |
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