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Brian and all

Gene
 

I'm curious what people think of these arguments:
Aside from the other reasons given in a recent thread about getting Windows 11 on a new machine, I have argued in the past that when you upgrade to a new version of Windows, from Windows 10 to Windows 11, for example, there is a chance problems may be introduced.  They may not be serious problems, they may be a minor annoyance or two, but my argument is, why take an unnecessary chance by getting Windows 10 on a new machine?

Also, that is a reason I don't advocate reinstalling Windows just because a certain amount of time goes by, when there isn't any reason to, such as performance problems.

Perhaps neither argument applies to enough cases to make it valid, but I wonder.

Gene
Brian Vogel
 

Gene,

Please review your original message ( ).

I am not sure what you're asking with the question, "why take an unnecessary chance by getting Windows 10 on a new machine?"  (even if you meant Windows 11).

When it comes to new machines, you get whatever is on them when they came from the factory.  Given that Windows 10 is approaching end of life, I have no idea why your average user (or most users, period) would choose it over Windows 11, which has been shipping on new computers for months now.

As to your preamble to the question, upgrades can, of course, possibly introduce issues.  Anything can introduce issues, really, including day to day use.  But I can say in my years doing Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 upgrades to 10, as well as a few 10 to 11 upgrades, I've had significant issues with one upgrade, and minor (and easily corrected with a repair install) with another.

Things really have changed as far as updates (of any sort) introducing issues as Windows has evolved.  I was once a real foot-dragger when it came to updating in the XP era and the first half of the Windows 7 era.  After that, issues being introduced by updates began to be less frequent.  And after Windows 8 came out with telemetry, and the policy of releasing updates, including patch updates, in small cohorts, monitoring the results, then progressively larger cohorts, monitoring the results, things really changed.  Microsoft, in fact, back ported this release method into Windows 7 during the end of its era.  While there's still no such thing as a risk-free update, ever, the days of an update going out to virtually all Windows users, at once, and crippling the world if something went wrong are long gone.

For a discussion of updates among computer techs, which covers this territory, that just started recently on Technibble see the topic, Patch Tuesday.  What I'm saying is not just my opinion, nor am I the only one who was a foot-dragger in the past who's done a 180-degree about-face when it comes to updates.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit; Android 12 (MIUI 13)

Journalism 101:  If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.

      ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)
Gene
 

Perhaps I should have said upgrades.  What I was discussing when I said why take a chance is the idea that if you get Windows 10 now and have to upgrade a few years from now, you may have unnecessary problems that you wouldn't have if you had gotten Windows 11 originally.  But from your comments, it appears that this is a minor concern and that what I said might have applied in XP and before but not since later Windows 7.

Gene

On 1/11/2023 9:24 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Gene,

Please review your original message ( ).

I am not sure what you're asking with the question, "why take an unnecessary chance by getting Windows 10 on a new machine?"  (even if you meant Windows 11).

When it comes to new machines, you get whatever is on them when they came from the factory.  Given that Windows 10 is approaching end of life, I have no idea why your average user (or most users, period) would choose it over Windows 11, which has been shipping on new computers for months now.

As to your preamble to the question, upgrades can, of course, possibly introduce issues.  Anything can introduce issues, really, including day to day use.  But I can say in my years doing Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 upgrades to 10, as well as a few 10 to 11 upgrades, I've had significant issues with one upgrade, and minor (and easily corrected with a repair install) with another.

Things really have changed as far as updates (of any sort) introducing issues as Windows has evolved.  I was once a real foot-dragger when it came to updating in the XP era and the first half of the Windows 7 era.  After that, issues being introduced by updates began to be less frequent.  And after Windows 8 came out with telemetry, and the policy of releasing updates, including patch updates, in small cohorts, monitoring the results, then progressively larger cohorts, monitoring the results, things really changed.  Microsoft, in fact, back ported this release method into Windows 7 during the end of its era.  While there's still no such thing as a risk-free update, ever, the days of an update going out to virtually all Windows users, at once, and crippling the world if something went wrong are long gone.

For a discussion of updates among computer techs, which covers this territory, that just started recently on Technibble see the topic, Patch Tuesday.  What I'm saying is not just my opinion, nor am I the only one who was a foot-dragger in the past who's done a 180-degree about-face when it comes to updates.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit; Android 12 (MIUI 13)

Journalism 101:  If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.

      ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)
Brian's Mail list account
 

Well, I have several machines running XP on old hardware, and they run it only due to the fact that there are certain rare things that need doing that would otherwise require a new inaccessible version of software to do it.
Likewise as I said before, The two Win 7 machines are used in production of the Talking newspaper and if I thought all the inter related software would just run in10, It would have been updated by now, but sadly that will not be the case. Ideally what I need is a cloned machine from the 7 one that I can update and see what happens without disrupting the one that works.

When I say cloned, I mean everything including the set ups for all the software which took us an age to perfect. I think this is where some people are different to the corporate use and indeed the person only interested in 'normal' tasks and do not need specialist perhaps no longer supported software to run.


Some people will never agree of course and I understand their reasons, but due to the daunting task and down times involved if you provide a service as a charity, it can get pushed to the bottom of the list a lot.
Brian

--
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <chat@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2023 2:45 AM
Subject: [chat] Brian and all


I'm curious what people think of these arguments:
Aside from the other reasons given in a recent thread about getting Windows 11 on a new machine, I have argued in the past that when you upgrade to a new version of Windows, from Windows 10 to Windows 11, for example, there is a chance problems may be introduced. They may not be serious problems, they may be a minor annoyance or two, but my argument is, why take an unnecessary chance by getting Windows 10 on a new machine?

Also, that is a reason I don't advocate reinstalling Windows just because a certain amount of time goes by, when there isn't any reason to, such as performance problems.

Perhaps neither argument applies to enough cases to make it valid, but I wonder.

Gene
Brian Vogel
 

Brian,

First, and foremost, everything you say is true.  But second, and equally importantly, what-if-ism for known odd exception circumstances is supremely unhelpful and, in fact, not germane to the context of the discussion.

I know of WinXP machines still running to do control software that does not exist in later versions for things like lathes and other manufacturing hardware.  No one, least of all me, is discussing that sort of specialty application (particulary since those machines are almost never connected to cyberspace, either).

These discussions are about daily driver machines on people's desks.  The odd exceptions required for esoteric reasons are not in the sphere being discussed.

I will close, though, with my own personal experiences and observations that very many claims that, "Software X can't run under Windows 10," turns out to be patently incorrect with a slight bit of effort.  I have ancient software (XP era, not much of it, but still) that runs quite happily under Windows 10.  A few things require compatibility mode to be used, but most don't.  There's usually a bit of fine-tuning in the configuration involved.  But over the long term it's far easier to spend that time to have something that runs under modern Windows than trying to keep aging hardware up and running with proverbial bubble gum and wire.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit; Android 12 (MIUI 13)

Journalism 101:  If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.

      ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)
Brian's Mail list account
 

Yes, I was just trying to figure something out when this came in. We have a bit of a bespoke Access Database, but the way Access saves its files changed after XP and now, Thus the old database with its visual basic macros will not load, and if I find the last version which did load it in, then I get errors in places due to some XML statements, or so the error says.
Sadly the programmer of the database has died, so I fear we have two options here. We either carry on with the current XP machine, or pay somebody to rewrite the database in an accessible way in either current Access or some other platform. There are many bespoke features like reading bar codes and printing them on labels with addresses, and counting numbers of reusable postal pouches back etc.

This is the main sticking block for our committee as I want it accessible as I am the one blind person.
It is at the moment in the main, but often because it plays little wav files where Access does not play ball, so to speak.

Most other programs including batch files should as far as I can tell function the say way in the command prompt as they do on xp and 7.
Its just a matter of making folder permissions work as they currently do.
Brian

--
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
To: <chat@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2023 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [chat] Brian and all


Brian,

First, and foremost, everything you say is true. But second, and equally importantly, what-if-ism for known odd exception circumstances is supremely unhelpful and, in fact, not germane to the context of the discussion.

I know of WinXP machines still running to do control software that does not exist in later versions for things like lathes and other manufacturing hardware. No one, least of all me, is discussing that sort of specialty application (particulary since those machines are almost never connected to cyberspace, either).

These discussions are about daily driver machines on people's desks. The odd exceptions required for esoteric reasons are not in the sphere being discussed.

I will close, though, with my own personal experiences and observations that very many claims that, "Software X can't run under Windows 10," turns out to be patently incorrect with a slight bit of effort. I have ancient software (XP era, not much of it, but still) that runs quite happily under Windows 10. A few things require compatibility mode to be used, but most don't. There's usually a bit of fine-tuning in the configuration involved. But over the long term it's far easier to spend that time to have something that runs under modern Windows than trying to keep aging hardware up and running with proverbial bubble gum and wire.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit; Android 12 (MIUI 13)

Journalism 101: *If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.*

~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)
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