Gmail Web Interface Question: Standard View: Problem in Deleting All Messages in a Mailbox Using the Keyboard
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David Goldfield
I’m very unfamiliar with using the keyboard to access and manipulate emails on the Gmail.com Web site. I’m supporting someone using Gmail who needs all messages in a folder to be deleted. After conducting some online research I have confirmed that keyboard commands are enabled under the Advanced settings and if I understand what I’m seeing the # key is used to delete messages. This hotkey is not working for me even though I see it assigned as that key in settings. In addition I gather that *a selects all messages or at least all conversations but, again, this isn’t working and I believe we are in standard view as opposed to the basic HTML view. All I need to do is to select all messages, then delete them. What am I missing?
David Goldfield, Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field. Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io
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Ok, go into standard, go into focus mode, hit star then A, then number sign. Is that not working? I can get all of these to work btw. What browser is he using? It works best in chrome.
From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2023 8:39 AM To: chat@nvda.groups.io Subject: [chat] Gmail Web Interface Question: Standard View: Problem in Deleting All Messages in a Mailbox Using the Keyboard
I’m very unfamiliar with using the keyboard to access and manipulate emails on the Gmail.com Web site. I’m supporting someone using Gmail who needs all messages in a folder to be deleted. After conducting some online research I have confirmed that keyboard commands are enabled under the Advanced settings and if I understand what I’m seeing the # key is used to delete messages. This hotkey is not working for me even though I see it assigned as that key in settings. In addition I gather that *a selects all messages or at least all conversations but, again, this isn’t working and I believe we are in standard view as opposed to the basic HTML view. All I need to do is to select all messages, then delete them. What am I missing?
David Goldfield, Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field. Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io
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See if the following tutorial I wrote covers it:
Mass Selection and Deletion of Gmail Messages Using Gmail Keyboard Shortcuts The tools to do this are already built into the Gmail web interface or any e-mail client. I'll stick to the Gmail web interface. Make sure that you have keyboard shortcuts turned on in Gmail Settings 1. [Optional if you just want all messages in a given label/folder] Using the search box at the top of the page, enter the search criterion or criteria for the messages you wish to move to trash. In this case we'll say it's all messages that were sent to me from john.smith@..., so I'd enter the following in the search box: from:john.smith@... 2. After you've pulled up your search results, use * + a to select all conversations. Two important notes: a) A single message constitutes a “conversation of one.” b) You must use asterisk, so if you’re doing this from the number row you must hold down Shift when hitting 8 and then hit A. You can keep Shift held down if that’s easier, as it doesn’t matter if the A is uppercase or lowercase. All of your messages in the folder that are now visible are selected. Note well the “that are visible” part. If you have more messages than can be displayed on the screen in that folder, you must do Step 3. If not, then you can now hit # to delete what’s selected, and you’re done. 3. This is where the trick comes in because the screen reader cannot focus on two places at once. After doing the select all the first 100 conversations/messages (or whatever you've chosen as your maximum to display) are shown as selected and focus remains on the select menu. However, if you've got way more than that 100 a link is also now up on the screen that allows you to cause the remaining messages not visible to be selected as well. It starts with "Select all" and this is a case where I use the screen reader search function, not the browser search function, because when you use it to search for "Select all" it will not only find it but throw focus on to that link when it does. I don't have to piddle around with mouse routing after searching. So, do what I just described and activate the "Select all conversations that match this search" (if you actually did a search) or the “Select all {insert number here} messages in . . .” link. Feedback from the screen reader regarding whether all conversations have been selected has been, shall we say, inconsistent, but the actual selection of all conversations after activating that link has not. If you've activated it all conversations/messages that matched the search criteria (if you searched) or just all conversations/messages are now selected. 4. Now hit #, and all of the selected conversations/messages will be deleted. Note, again, that you must hold Shift down when hitting 3 on the number row to produce an actual #. There are so many Gmail keyboard shortcuts that when it comes to the ones that employ special characters, you absolutely must use whatever keyboard sequence is required to produce the actual special character. --Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit; Android 12 (MIUI 13) Journalism 101: If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true. ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed) |
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Brian's Mail list account
# is a key on its own on the UK keyboard layout, by the way.
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I've noticed that hot keys generally on web sites can work in browse mode, while on others it has to be in focus mode. There seems to be little consistency, and this is one reason I get annoyed with web based apps, as its nearly always trial and error. Brian -- bglists@... Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media) Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...> To: <chat@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2023 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [chat] Gmail Web Interface Question: Standard View: Problem in Deleting All Messages in a Mailbox Using the Keyboard See if the following tutorial I wrote covers it: *Mass Selection and Deletion of Gmail Messages Using Gmail Keyboard Shortcuts* The tools to do this are already built into the Gmail web interface or any e-mail client. I'll stick to the Gmail web interface. Make sure that you have keyboard shortcuts turned on in Gmail Settings 1. [Optional if you just want all messages in a given label/folder] Using the search box at the top of the page, enter the search criterion or criteria for the messages you wish to move to trash. In this case we'll say it's all messages that were sent to me from john.smith@..., so I'd enter the following in the search box: from:john.smith@... 2. After you've pulled up your search results, use * + a to select all conversations. Two important notes: a) A single message constitutes a “conversation of one.” b) You must use asterisk, so if you’re doing this from the number row you must hold down Shift when hitting 8 and then hit A. You can keep Shift held down if that’s easier, as it doesn’t matter if the A is uppercase or lowercase. All of your messages in the folder that are now visible are selected. Note well the “that are visible” part. If you have more messages than can be displayed on the screen in that folder, you must do Step 3. If not, then you can now hit # to delete what’s selected, and you’re done. 3. This is where the trick comes in because the screen reader cannot focus on two places at once. After doing the select all the first 100 conversations/messages (or whatever you've chosen as your maximum to display) are shown as selected and focus remains on the select menu. However, if you've got way more than that 100 a link is also now up on the screen that allows you to cause the remaining messages not visible to be selected as well. It starts with "Select all" and this is a case where I use the screen reader search function, not the browser search function, because when you use it to search for "Select all" it will not only find it but throw focus on to that link when it does. I don't have to piddle around with mouse routing after searching. So, do what I just described and activate the "Select all conversations that match this search" (if you actually did a search) or the “Select all {insert number here} messages in . . .” link. Feedback from the screen reader regarding whether all conversations have been selected has been, shall we say, inconsistent, but the actual selection of all conversations after activating that link has not. If you've activated it all conversations/messages that matched the search criteria (if you searched) or just all conversations/messages are now selected. 4. Now hit #, and all of the selected conversations/messages will be deleted. Note, again, that you must hold Shift down when hitting 3 on the number row to produce an actual #. There are so many Gmail keyboard shortcuts that when it comes to the ones that employ special characters, you absolutely must use whatever keyboard sequence is required to produce the actual special character. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit; Android 12 (MIUI 13) Journalism 101: *If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.* ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed) |
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Gene
It depends on the settings you use and what the command is.
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using defaults in NVDA, a key that is used for quick navigation never reaches the web page and won't work as a short cut when you are in browse mode. When you are in focus mode, no quick navigation commands are intercepted by the screen-reader because you are working with the actual underlying page. Commands that aren't used by the screen reader in browse mode or for other screen-reader purposes will reach the web page in either mode and will work as shortcut keys if they are used by the web page. Such commands as alt i and control shift a are examples. They aren't used for screen-reader functions nor as quick navigation commands in browse mode. Gene On 1/18/2023 6:28 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:
# is a key on its own on the UK keyboard layout, by the way. |
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On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 07:29 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
as its nearly always trial and error.- And this differs from non-web apps in precisely what way? Trial and error is the "usual thing" in life when learning anything new, and often the first thing in any given sphere is the most difficult, and you can apply what you've learned to other things in that sphere, making those a bit easier. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit; Android 12 (MIUI 13) Journalism 101: If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true. ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed) |
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Brian's Mail list account
Oh, so really if a web site forces focus mode, then if you have the focus mode automatically triggered, then it will work, but of course then you cannot cursor out, if you have it so you have to engage focus mode then it will not work unless you use the pass next key to the application or force focus mode, depending on how the page has been set up by the author of course.
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Brian -- bglists@... Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media) Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...> To: <chat@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2023 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [chat] Gmail Web Interface Question: Standard View: Problem in Deleting All Messages in a Mailbox Using the Keyboard It depends on the settings you use and what the command is. |
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Brian's Mail list account
I think maybe I'm trying to see some logic to workout how a given site implements its shortcut keys in a given browser, which is maybe me trying to be too logical!
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Brian -- bglists@... Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media) Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...> To: <chat@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2023 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [chat] Gmail Web Interface Question: Standard View: Problem in Deleting All Messages in a Mailbox Using the Keyboard On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 07:29 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote: - And this differs from non-web apps in precisely what way? Trial and error is the "usual thing" in life when learning anything new, and often the first thing in any given sphere is the most difficult, and you can apply what you've learned to other things in that sphere, making those a bit easier. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit; Android 12 (MIUI 13) Journalism 101: *If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.* ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed) |
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On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 04:07 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
I think maybe I'm trying to see some logic to workout how a given site implements its shortcut keys in a given browser- You seem to be laying layer after layer on to keyboard shortcuts for web apps that just generally don't apply. As one example, Gmail's keyboard shortcuts (which you do have to turn on) do not differ by browser. They're the same in Firefox, Chrome, Edge, etc. You also at one point mentioned something about websites forcing a given screen reader mode, and I have yet to encounter that. You do, however, have to be aware of the general processing hierarchy of keyboard shortcuts in general. Windows itself gets first crack, then the screen reader when one is in use, then the application. If a given shortcut is consumed by Windows, then it can't be used otherwise (and a good example of that is ALT + F4, which closes a given application or window that's got focus). If a shortcut is consumed by the screen reader, then if it is also used by the application being accessed then the pass-through function of the screen reader must be used. If neither Windows or the screen reader uses it, then it's fair game with attention paid to whether you're in browse or focus mode. Text entry in focus mode "always wins" then. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit; Android 12 (MIUI 13) Journalism 101: If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true. ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed) |
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Gene
Are you saying that in some browsers short cuts may be different on a site than when using another browser? I don't know if that ever is the case. I don't use short cuts much because the sites I use a lot don't use them and I usually use the same browser on this or that site that does.
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Gene On 1/20/2023 3:07 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:
I think maybe I'm trying to see some logic to workout how a given site implements its shortcut keys in a given browser, which is maybe me trying to be too logical! |
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THER IS ALSO THE KEY NVDA SHIFT SPACE WHICH WILL TOGGLE THE QUICK KEYS on and OFF,SO THAT'S ANOTHR WAY. I'M 99 PERCENT SURE that key is in the manual somewhere.
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-----Original Message-----
From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via groups.io Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2023 2:08 AM To: chat@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [chat] Gmail Web Interface Question: Standard View: Problem in Deleting All Messages in a Mailbox Using the Keyboard Oh, so really if a web site forces focus mode, then if you have the focus mode automatically triggered, then it will work, but of course then you cannot cursor out, if you have it so you have to engage focus mode then it will not work unless you use the pass next key to the application or force focus mode, depending on how the page has been set up by the author of course. Brian -- bglists@... Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media) Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@...> To: <chat@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2023 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [chat] Gmail Web Interface Question: Standard View: Problem in Deleting All Messages in a Mailbox Using the Keyboard It depends on the settings you use and what the command is. |
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On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 03:34 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
NVDA SHIFT SPACE WHICH WILL TOGGLE THE QUICK KEYS on and OFF- From the Commands Quick Reference: To toggle single letter navigation on and off for the current document, press NVDA+shift+space. and from the User Guide: Some web applications such as Gmail, Twitter and Facebook use single letters as shortcut keys. If you want to use these while still being able to use your cursor keys to read in browse mode, you can temporarily disable NVDA's single letter navigation keys. To toggle single letter navigation on and off for the current document, press NVDA+shift+space. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit; Android 12 (MIUI 13) Journalism 101: If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true. ~ Jonathan Foster (attributed) |
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