Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?


Khalid Anwar
 

 Hi, I'm new here so please bear with me if I do something wrong.
 I was planning to switch from an iPad to a Microsoft surface tablet which I can use as both a Windows laptop and tablet at the same time, and was wondering about the accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen, and how this compares to voice-over.
 For example, is there a way to use NVDA to select copy and paste text from the webpage or Word document using only the touchscreen, are there specific gestures configured to  toggle dictation on and off, and how do you switch from navigating the webpage by words, buttons and links with the touchscreen, iOS has a rotor which you can use but I'm pretty sure that's unique to Apple. 


Sky Mundell
 

Hello. To be honest I have had very little experience with touchscreens on windows, but what I can say about Narrator is that it is turning into a serious competitor. It’s getting better and better all the time. There is still some work done that needs to be done, but that doesn’t and should not stop folks from using it. I personally had used Narrator for a week as my primary screen reader and I could do the things that I do in NVDA with it.

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io [mailto:chat@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of anwarkhalid850@...
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 10:44 AM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?

 

 Hi, I'm new here so please bear with me if I do something wrong.

 I was planning to switch from an iPad to a Microsoft surface tablet which I can use as both a Windows laptop and tablet at the same time, and was wondering about the accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen, and how this compares to voice-over.

 For example, is there a way to use NVDA to select copy and paste text from the webpage or Word document using only the touchscreen, are there specific gestures configured to  toggle dictation on and off, and how do you switch from navigating the webpage by words, buttons and links with the touchscreen, iOS has a rotor which you can use but I'm pretty sure that's unique to Apple. 


Khalid Anwar
 

I can certainly agree, I guess the concern for Microsoft narrator is that it doesn't have a predictable release schedule like iOS voice-over or NVDA, and there is no indication of what features will be added and which bugs will be fixed, but from what I've heard Microsoft have added some excellent new people to the Accessibility team and this can only help to improve the screen reader.

Khalid Anwar
Please call 07497613820 or email AnwarKhalid850@...


 

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 02:57 PM, <anwarkhalid850@...> wrote:
narrator is that it doesn't have a predictable release schedule like iOS voice-over or NVDA
-
And it's entirely like Windows 10 overall in that respect.  There are places you can dig in the bowels of Microsoft's site to try to determine when a given specific issue might be being addressed, but it's never easy to find out.

The age of Windows As A Service (WAAS) that started with Windows 10 was a complete paradigm shift, and fixes tend to be being made much more rapidly, no matter what part of the OS is involved, than they were in the old days.  I've also been impressed when a good, solid bug report is put in via the Feedback Hub that I've often gotten a reply from someone at Microsoft that tells me that it's been officially recognized and become a part of the "to be fixed" stream.  

Whether something is a quick fix or not is one of the big determiners as to whether it will be a part of regular cumulative updates that occur multiple times in the service life of any given Windows 10 version or more likely to be a part of the next (or possibly two ahead) feature update.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide


Khalid Anwar
 

I can quite understand why you would want to keep the group focused on NVDA, I appreciate the difficulties you've had with keeping some users on topic.
I think where the problems come in are if people are coming from an iOS or Apple background where everything is interconnected and  all part of an ecosystem, I guess NVDA is more like a mirror in that it can reflect what a computer can already do and make certain things accessible through keyboard shortcuts and touch gestures, but if the computer doesn't have the capability built in, NVDA can't create that.

 

Khalid Anwar
Please call 07497613820 or email AnwarKhalid850@...

On 22 Nov 2020, at 19:57, anwarkhalid850 via groups.io <anwarkhalid850@...> wrote:

I can certainly agree, I guess the concern for Microsoft narrator is that it doesn't have a predictable release schedule like iOS voice-over or NVDA, and there is no indication of what features will be added and which bugs will be fixed, but from what I've heard Microsoft have added some excellent new people to the Accessibility team and this can only help to improve the screen reader.

Khalid Anwar
Please call 07497613820 or email AnwarKhalid850@...


matthew dyer <ilovecountrymusic483@...>
 

Hi,
Wile I don’t use 
Narerator very often I can tell you that I have a surface pro7 and it is very stable but I have used it and narrater is becoming a screenreader in its own rite.  HTH.

Matthew


On Nov 22, 2020, at 3:03 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 02:57 PM, <anwarkhalid850@...> wrote:
narrator is that it doesn't have a predictable release schedule like iOS voice-over or NVDA
-
And it's entirely like Windows 10 overall in that respect.  There are places you can dig in the bowels of Microsoft's site to try to determine when a given specific issue might be being addressed, but it's never easy to find out.

The age of Windows As A Service (WAAS) that started with Windows 10 was a complete paradigm shift, and fixes tend to be being made much more rapidly, no matter what part of the OS is involved, than they were in the old days.  I've also been impressed when a good, solid bug report is put in via the Feedback Hub that I've often gotten a reply from someone at Microsoft that tells me that it's been officially recognized and become a part of the "to be fixed" stream.  

Whether something is a quick fix or not is one of the big determiners as to whether it will be a part of regular cumulative updates that occur multiple times in the service life of any given Windows 10 version or more likely to be a part of the next (or possibly two ahead) feature update.
 
--
Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide


molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.

I have a surface tablet and both NVDA and Narrator work extremely well.

Though I prefer to use NVDA.

 

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of anwarkhalid850@...
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 1:44 PM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?

 

 Hi, I'm new here so please bear with me if I do something wrong.

 I was planning to switch from an iPad to a Microsoft surface tablet which I can use as both a Windows laptop and tablet at the same time, and was wondering about the accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen, and how this compares to voice-over.

 For example, is there a way to use NVDA to select copy and paste text from the webpage or Word document using only the touchscreen, are there specific gestures configured to  toggle dictation on and off, and how do you switch from navigating the webpage by words, buttons and links with the touchscreen, iOS has a rotor which you can use but I'm pretty sure that's unique to Apple. 


Khalid Anwar
 

Hi Molly,

Is it okay if I ask you a few questions? Do you use the touchscreen mode on your Microsoft surface computer, and how good is it.
Have you ever had an experience with iOS devices?
And also is there a way to select copy and paste text using only touch gestures on the touchscreen.



On 24 Nov 2020, at 09:21, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

Hi.

I have a surface tablet and both NVDA and Narrator work extremely well.

Though I prefer to use NVDA.

 

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of anwarkhalid850@...
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 1:44 PM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?

 

 Hi, I'm new here so please bear with me if I do something wrong.

 I was planning to switch from an iPad to a Microsoft surface tablet which I can use as both a Windows laptop and tablet at the same time, and was wondering about the accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen, and how this compares to voice-over.

 For example, is there a way to use NVDA to select copy and paste text from the webpage or Word document using only the touchscreen, are there specific gestures configured to  toggle dictation on and off, and how do you switch from navigating the webpage by words, buttons and links with the touchscreen, iOS has a rotor which you can use but I'm pretty sure that's unique to Apple. 


molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.

I mainly use the touchscreen on my tablet for navigating and the keyboard for entering text.

It works great.

 

 

 

You can download an add-on called enhanced touch gestures, which provides additional touchscreen  gestures.

It’s an awesome add-on in my opinion.

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/enhancedTouchGestures.en.html

 

 

 

 

I have an Android device.

I am not sure if there is a way to copy and paste using the touchscreen in Windows 10.

 

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Khalid Anwar
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 8:12 AM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?

 

Hi Molly,

Is it okay if I ask you a few questions? Do you use the touchscreen mode on your Microsoft surface computer, and how good is it.
Have you ever had an experience with iOS devices?
And also is there a way to select copy and paste text using only touch gestures on the touchscreen.

 


On 24 Nov 2020, at 09:21, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

Hi.

I have a surface tablet and both NVDA and Narrator work extremely well.

Though I prefer to use NVDA.

 

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of anwarkhalid850@...
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 1:44 PM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?

 

 Hi, I'm new here so please bear with me if I do something wrong.

 I was planning to switch from an iPad to a Microsoft surface tablet which I can use as both a Windows laptop and tablet at the same time, and was wondering about the accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen, and how this compares to voice-over.

 For example, is there a way to use NVDA to select copy and paste text from the webpage or Word document using only the touchscreen, are there specific gestures configured to  toggle dictation on and off, and how do you switch from navigating the webpage by words, buttons and links with the touchscreen, iOS has a rotor which you can use but I'm pretty sure that's unique to Apple. 


Khalid Anwar
 

That’s good to hear,
Are you going to be attending the NVDA conference next month?


Also, have you ever use the input gestures dialogue in NBA to create your own touch gestures?




On 24 Nov 2020, at 13:44, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

Hi.

I mainly use the touchscreen on my tablet for navigating and the keyboard for entering text.

It works great.

 

 

 

You can download an add-on called enhanced touch gestures, which provides additional touchscreen  gestures.

It’s an awesome add-on in my opinion.

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/enhancedTouchGestures.en.html

 

 

 

 

I have an Android device.

I am not sure if there is a way to copy and paste using the touchscreen in Windows 10.

 

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Khalid Anwar
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 8:12 AM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?

 

Hi Molly,

Is it okay if I ask you a few questions? Do you use the touchscreen mode on your Microsoft surface computer, and how good is it.
Have you ever had an experience with iOS devices?
And also is there a way to select copy and paste text using only touch gestures on the touchscreen.

 


On 24 Nov 2020, at 09:21, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

Hi.

I have a surface tablet and both NVDA and Narrator work extremely well.

Though I prefer to use NVDA.

 

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of anwarkhalid850@...
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 1:44 PM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?

 

 Hi, I'm new here so please bear with me if I do something wrong.

 I was planning to switch from an iPad to a Microsoft surface tablet which I can use as both a Windows laptop and tablet at the same time, and was wondering about the accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen, and how this compares to voice-over.

 For example, is there a way to use NVDA to select copy and paste text from the webpage or Word document using only the touchscreen, are there specific gestures configured to  toggle dictation on and off, and how do you switch from navigating the webpage by words, buttons and links with the touchscreen, iOS has a rotor which you can use but I'm pretty sure that's unique to Apple. 


molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.

Yes, I will be attending NVDA conference.

I am looking forward to meeting new people.

I am kind of an introvert, and I’d like to be more confident and less shy.

Sorry, I am getting to personal lol.

Will you be attending NVDA conference as well?

In regards to input gestures, I have not created any for the touchscreen, but I have created gestures for the weather plus add-on, clock, etc.

 

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Khalid Anwar
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 10:32 AM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?

 

That’s good to hear,

Are you going to be attending the NVDA conference next month?

Also, have you ever use the input gestures dialogue in NBA to create your own touch gestures?

 


On 24 Nov 2020, at 13:44, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

Hi.

I mainly use the touchscreen on my tablet for navigating and the keyboard for entering text.

It works great.

 

 

 

You can download an add-on called enhanced touch gestures, which provides additional touchscreen  gestures.

It’s an awesome add-on in my opinion.

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/enhancedTouchGestures.en.html

 

 

 

 

I have an Android device.

I am not sure if there is a way to copy and paste using the touchscreen in Windows 10.

 

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Khalid Anwar
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 8:12 AM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?

 

Hi Molly,

Is it okay if I ask you a few questions? Do you use the touchscreen mode on your Microsoft surface computer, and how good is it.
Have you ever had an experience with iOS devices?
And also is there a way to select copy and paste text using only touch gestures on the touchscreen.

 


On 24 Nov 2020, at 09:21, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

Hi.

I have a surface tablet and both NVDA and Narrator work extremely well.

Though I prefer to use NVDA.

 

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of anwarkhalid850@...
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 1:44 PM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?

 

 Hi, I'm new here so please bear with me if I do something wrong.

 I was planning to switch from an iPad to a Microsoft surface tablet which I can use as both a Windows laptop and tablet at the same time, and was wondering about the accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen, and how this compares to voice-over.

 For example, is there a way to use NVDA to select copy and paste text from the webpage or Word document using only the touchscreen, are there specific gestures configured to  toggle dictation on and off, and how do you switch from navigating the webpage by words, buttons and links with the touchscreen, iOS has a rotor which you can use but I'm pretty sure that's unique to Apple. 


 

From what I can determine among these search results:  https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Windows+10+touch+gestures 
it appears to me that copy and paste of things like files or folders is likely to be handled via the context menu.

I do not have a touchscreen Windows 10 device handy, but I cannot imagine that text selection and cut/copy/paste will not be handled very similarly to Android or iOS.  I actually need to get back my spare laptop that I loaned to someone that does have a touchscreen for testing purposes, but it's not here now.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide


molly the blind tech lover
 

In NVDA 20.3, there is a touch gesture to activate a context menu.

Double tap and hold.

It is the equivalent of clicking the right mouse button.

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 11:58 AM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?

 

From what I can determine among these search results:  https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Windows+10+touch+gestures 
it appears to me that copy and paste of things like files or folders is likely to be handled via the context menu.

I do not have a touchscreen Windows 10 device handy, but I cannot imagine that text selection and cut/copy/paste will not be handled very similarly to Android or iOS.  I actually need to get back my spare laptop that I loaned to someone that does have a touchscreen for testing purposes, but it's not here now.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide


Khalid Anwar
 

I was thinking of seeing if it was possible to map touch gestures on to  the existing windows gestures for copy and paste, controll c and  control v
Perhaps by using the keyboard emulator, though i  think that’s only available for braille displays and not touch gestures.




On 24 Nov 2020, at 17:14, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

In NVDA 20.3, there is a touch gesture to activate a context menu.

Double tap and hold.

It is the equivalent of clicking the right mouse button.

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 11:58 AM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?

 

From what I can determine among these search results:  https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Windows+10+touch+gestures 
it appears to me that copy and paste of things like files or folders is likely to be handled via the context menu.

I do not have a touchscreen Windows 10 device handy, but I cannot imagine that text selection and cut/copy/paste will not be handled very similarly to Android or iOS.  I actually need to get back my spare laptop that I loaned to someone that does have a touchscreen for testing purposes, but it's not here now.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide


Khalid Anwar
 

Another question for you molly
How do you find the battery life on your surface pro, most tech reviews I have seen mention that the battery life is pretty poor but they do use the device for graphics intensive applications and I think I can squeeze some more life from the device by turning the screen right down to reducing graphics settings completely. My iPad can give me about 10 hours, but I appreciate it’s not running the full version of Windows 10.



On 24 Nov 2020, at 17:43, Khalid Anwar via groups.io <anwarkhalid850@...> wrote:

I was thinking of seeing if it was possible to map touch gestures on to  the existing windows gestures for copy and paste, controll c and  control v
Perhaps by using the keyboard emulator, though i  think that’s only available for braille displays and not touch gestures.




On 24 Nov 2020, at 17:14, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

In NVDA 20.3, there is a touch gesture to activate a context menu.

Double tap and hold.

It is the equivalent of clicking the right mouse button.

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 11:58 AM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?

 

From what I can determine among these search results:  https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Windows+10+touch+gestures 
it appears to me that copy and paste of things like files or folders is likely to be handled via the context menu.

I do not have a touchscreen Windows 10 device handy, but I cannot imagine that text selection and cut/copy/paste will not be handled very similarly to Android or iOS.  I actually need to get back my spare laptop that I loaned to someone that does have a touchscreen for testing purposes, but it's not here now.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide


 

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 12:43 PM, Khalid Anwar wrote:
I was thinking of seeing if it was possible to map touch gestures on to  the existing windows gestures for copy and paste, controll c and  control v
-
Who knows, it very well may be.

But I cannot even imagine how text selection would be handled via touch in any way that's easy and reliable.  I hate even trying to do it and I can see everything perfectly.  Of course, that's on a smartphone, where the screen size is much smaller and targeting much more precise.  But still, I'd love to see how a really skilled blind user does text selection by touch alone, as I can't even really conceive of how that would be done reliably.

I'm also not quite sure how multi-select for a collection of files or folders is accomplished via touch, though I imagine it's probably much like text selection by touch (or mouse, really) where once the initial starting point of selection is made that continuing to drag one's finger over other items would sweep them into the collection of selected items.

It's funny, but even being fully sighted I absolutely despise touch interfaces other than on smartphones or tablets, where the device was designed from day one to support it.  Even then, there are times (text selection being one) where precision is maddeningly difficult to obtain easily.   One of the reasons Windows 8 and 8.1 were abject failures in the marketplace was the presumption that all of the world's PC users would be rapidly transitioning to touch-enabled devices.  That was not true then, and still is not true today.  Most of what one has to do in an office setting is very much focused on text/data entry, and the most efficient tool for that is the good, old-fashioned keyboard.  Windows 10 did a brilliant job of keeping the best of Windows 8.1 while also acknowledging that there will still be untold millions of users on regular, non-touch machines and giving them back the tools they were familiar with, or at least something similar.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide


Khalid Anwar
 

 iOS voice-over has some pretty good text selection capabilities for a touchscreen,, and the way it works is that it's a separate mode in the same way that navigating by links headings and buttons it's on the same rotor, there is a text selection mode and swiping right and left will highlight the required amount of text, and then you can use touch gestures to copy and paste

Khalid Anwar
Please call 07497613820 or email AnwarKhalid850@...

On 24 Nov 2020, at 17:59, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 12:43 PM, Khalid Anwar wrote:
I was thinking of seeing if it was possible to map touch gestures on to  the existing windows gestures for copy and paste, controll c and  control v
-
Who knows, it very well may be.

But I cannot even imagine how text selection would be handled via touch in any way that's easy and reliable.  I hate even trying to do it and I can see everything perfectly.  Of course, that's on a smartphone, where the screen size is much smaller and targeting much more precise.  But still, I'd love to see how a really skilled blind user does text selection by touch alone, as I can't even really conceive of how that would be done reliably.

I'm also not quite sure how multi-select for a collection of files or folders is accomplished via touch, though I imagine it's probably much like text selection by touch (or mouse, really) where once the initial starting point of selection is made that continuing to drag one's finger over other items would sweep them into the collection of selected items.

It's funny, but even being fully sighted I absolutely despise touch interfaces other than on smartphones or tablets, where the device was designed from day one to support it.  Even then, there are times (text selection being one) where precision is maddeningly difficult to obtain easily.   One of the reasons Windows 8 and 8.1 were abject failures in the marketplace was the presumption that all of the world's PC users would be rapidly transitioning to touch-enabled devices.  That was not true then, and still is not true today.  Most of what one has to do in an office setting is very much focused on text/data entry, and the most efficient tool for that is the good, old-fashioned keyboard.  Windows 10 did a brilliant job of keeping the best of Windows 8.1 while also acknowledging that there will still be untold millions of users on regular, non-touch machines and giving them back the tools they were familiar with, or at least something similar.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide


molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.

My battery usually lasts for about 6 hours from a full charge.

I usually charge it when it gets down to 50 percent.

My ancient Android tablet has a longer battery life.

Same with my Android phone.

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Khalid Anwar
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 12:46 PM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?

 

Another question for you molly

How do you find the battery life on your surface pro, most tech reviews I have seen mention that the battery life is pretty poor but they do use the device for graphics intensive applications and I think I can squeeze some more life from the device by turning the screen right down to reducing graphics settings completely. My iPad can give me about 10 hours, but I appreciate it’s not running the full version of Windows 10.

 


On 24 Nov 2020, at 17:43, Khalid Anwar via groups.io <anwarkhalid850@...> wrote:

I was thinking of seeing if it was possible to map touch gestures on to  the existing windows gestures for copy and paste, controll c and  control v

Perhaps by using the keyboard emulator, though i  think that’s only available for braille displays and not touch gestures.

 


On 24 Nov 2020, at 17:14, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

In NVDA 20.3, there is a touch gesture to activate a context menu.

Double tap and hold.

It is the equivalent of clicking the right mouse button.

 

From: chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 11:58 AM
To: chat@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?

 

From what I can determine among these search results:  https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Windows+10+touch+gestures 
it appears to me that copy and paste of things like files or folders is likely to be handled via the context menu.

I do not have a touchscreen Windows 10 device handy, but I cannot imagine that text selection and cut/copy/paste will not be handled very similarly to Android or iOS.  I actually need to get back my spare laptop that I loaned to someone that does have a touchscreen for testing purposes, but it's not here now.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide


Kevin Cussick
 

I have the surface go and get maybe about the same.

On 24/11/2020 19:02, molly the blind tech lover wrote:
Hi.
My battery usually lasts for about 6 hours from a full charge.
I usually charge it when it gets down to 50 percent.
My ancient Android tablet has a longer battery life.
Same with my Android phone.
*From:* chat@nvda.groups.io <chat@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Khalid Anwar
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 24, 2020 12:46 PM
*To:* chat@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft narrator with the touchscreen?
Another question for you molly
How do you find the battery life on your surface pro, most tech reviews I have seen mention that the battery life is pretty poor but they do use the device for graphics intensive applications and I think I can squeeze some more life from the device by turning the screen right down to reducing graphics settings completely. My iPad can give me about 10 hours, but I appreciate it’s not running the full version of Windows 10.
On 24 Nov 2020, at 17:43, Khalid Anwar via groups.io <http://groups.io> <anwarkhalid850=gmail.com@groups.io <mailto:anwarkhalid850=gmail.com@groups.io>> wrote:
I was thinking of seeing if it was possible to map touch gestures on
to  the existing windows gestures for copy and paste, controll c and
 control v
Perhaps by using the keyboard emulator, though i  think that’s only
available for braille displays and not touch gestures.
On 24 Nov 2020, at 17:14, molly the blind tech lover
<brainardmolly@gmail.com <mailto:brainardmolly@gmail.com>> wrote:
In NVDA 20.3, there is a touch gesture to activate a context menu.
Double tap and hold.
It is the equivalent of clicking the right mouse button.
*From:* chat@nvda.groups.io <mailto:chat@nvda.groups.io>
<chat@nvda.groups.io <mailto:chat@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
*Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 24, 2020 11:58 AM
*To:* chat@nvda.groups.io <mailto:chat@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [chat] Switching from an iPad to Microsoft
surface tablet, wondering about accessibility of Microsoft
narrator with the touchscreen?
From what I can determine among these search results:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Windows+10+touch+gestures
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Windows+10+touch+gestures>
it appears to me that copy and paste of things like files or
folders is likely to be handled via the context menu.
I do not have a touchscreen Windows 10 device handy, but I
cannot imagine that text selection and cut/copy/paste will not
be handled very similarly to Android or iOS.  I actually need to
get back my spare laptop that I loaned to someone that does have
a touchscreen for testing purposes, but it's not here now.
--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041
*The color of truth is grey.*
           ~ André Gide


David Goldfield
 

Brian,
I am no expert when it comes to using touch gestures with a Windows screen reader. However, selecting, copying and pasting text with iOS is incredibly easy using touch alone with VoiceOver, particularly if you have a more recent iOS version. The rotor now has a text selection option, where you can select text with the granularity of your choosing such as characters, words, or lines and the Edit rotor option then offers context-sensitive choices, such as cut, copy, etc.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 11/24/2020 12:59 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 12:43 PM, Khalid Anwar wrote:
I was thinking of seeing if it was possible to map touch gestures on to  the existing windows gestures for copy and paste, controll c and  control v
-
Who knows, it very well may be.

But I cannot even imagine how text selection would be handled via touch in any way that's easy and reliable.  I hate even trying to do it and I can see everything perfectly.  Of course, that's on a smartphone, where the screen size is much smaller and targeting much more precise.  But still, I'd love to see how a really skilled blind user does text selection by touch alone, as I can't even really conceive of how that would be done reliably.

I'm also not quite sure how multi-select for a collection of files or folders is accomplished via touch, though I imagine it's probably much like text selection by touch (or mouse, really) where once the initial starting point of selection is made that continuing to drag one's finger over other items would sweep them into the collection of selected items.

It's funny, but even being fully sighted I absolutely despise touch interfaces other than on smartphones or tablets, where the device was designed from day one to support it.  Even then, there are times (text selection being one) where precision is maddeningly difficult to obtain easily.   One of the reasons Windows 8 and 8.1 were abject failures in the marketplace was the presumption that all of the world's PC users would be rapidly transitioning to touch-enabled devices.  That was not true then, and still is not true today.  Most of what one has to do in an office setting is very much focused on text/data entry, and the most efficient tool for that is the good, old-fashioned keyboard.  Windows 10 did a brilliant job of keeping the best of Windows 8.1 while also acknowledging that there will still be untold millions of users on regular, non-touch machines and giving them back the tools they were familiar with, or at least something similar.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide