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Locked There is One Chat Subgroup

Gene
 

It appears, from the announcement message, that there are three chat groups.  This risks fragmenting users.  I think there should only be one.  There appears at present to be a chat help and a chat owner's list in addition to the just plain chat list.  Why can't any questions be taken up on the one chat list, including hgeneral discussions about list policy on that list and requests for help in terms of implementing rules or suggestions? 
 
Also, I would think that requests for help concerning using the list should be allowed on the main list.  While these questions don't deal with using NVDA directly, the purpose of the list is to provide information and discussion about using NVDA and how to use this list is directly related to its purpose.  Making such a distinction, asking that questions about how to use list features or how to contact the owner, etc. if attempted to be restricted to the chat list will discourage people from asking such questions. 
 
Gene

Brian's Mail list account
 

I've given up. They don't get it, not their felt its how they was brought up dontchaknow! grin.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <chat@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 4:51 AM
Subject: [chat] Three chat groups?


It appears, from the announcement message, that there are three chat groups. This risks fragmenting users. I think there should only be one. There appears at present to be a chat help and a chat owner's list in addition to the just plain chat list. Why can't any questions be taken up on the one chat list, including hgeneral discussions about list policy on that list and requests for help in terms of implementing rules or suggestions?

Also, I would think that requests for help concerning using the list should be allowed on the main list. While these questions don't deal with using NVDA directly, the purpose of the list is to provide information and discussion about using NVDA and how to use this list is directly related to its purpose. Making such a distinction, asking that questions about how to use list features or how to contact the owner, etc. if attempted to be restricted to the chat list will discourage people from asking such questions.

Gene

Marcio
 

Em 14/04/2019 00:51, Gene disse:
It appears, from the announcement message, that there are three chat groups.
Three chat groups, really? What are the other addresses apart from chat@nvda.groups.io?

Also, I would think that requests for help concerning using the list should be allowed on the main list.  While these questions don't deal with using NVDA directly, the purpose of the list is to provide information and discussion about using NVDA and how to use this list is directly related to its purpose.  Making such a distinction, asking that questions about how to use list features or how to contact the owner, etc. if attempted to be restricted to the chat list will discourage people from asking such questions.
100% agreed.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Gene
 

I don't know if there are three help lists, or if the reboot message just makes it seem as though there are.  I seem to find two, as I recall, on the NVDA site, but the reboot message seems to mention the chat list we are on, a help list and an owner's chat list.  We'll see if this is clarified.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Em 14/04/2019 00:51, Gene disse:
It appears, from the announcement message, that there are three chat groups.
Three chat groups, really? What are the other addresses apart from chat@nvda.groups.io?

Also, I would think that requests for help concerning using the list should be allowed on the main list.  While these questions don't deal with using NVDA directly, the purpose of the list is to provide information and discussion about using NVDA and how to use this list is directly related to its purpose.  Making such a distinction, asking that questions about how to use list features or how to contact the owner, etc. if attempted to be restricted to the chat list will discourage people from asking such questions.
100% agreed.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Gene
 

Here is the section from the reboot document.  At the end, it says that only main list members can subscribe to the chat list, single.  But three separate subscription addresses are given.  Do these all lead to the same chat list?  As I said, this needs to be clarified. 
 
"Again, for your convenience, the Chat Subgroup addresses are:
• Subscribe: chat+subscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Post: chat@nvda.groups.io
• Unsubscribe: chat+unsubscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Group Owner: chat+owner@nvda.groups.io
• Help: chat+help@nvda.groups.io
Only members of the NVDA Group are eligible to subscribe to the Chat Subgroup, ...."

From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

I don't know if there are three help lists, or if the reboot message just makes it seem as though there are.  I seem to find two, as I recall, on the NVDA site, but the reboot message seems to mention the chat list we are on, a help list and an owner's chat list.  We'll see if this is clarified.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Em 14/04/2019 00:51, Gene disse:
It appears, from the announcement message, that there are three chat groups.
Three chat groups, really? What are the other addresses apart from chat@nvda.groups.io?

Also, I would think that requests for help concerning using the list should be allowed on the main list.  While these questions don't deal with using NVDA directly, the purpose of the list is to provide information and discussion about using NVDA and how to use this list is directly related to its purpose.  Making such a distinction, asking that questions about how to use list features or how to contact the owner, etc. if attempted to be restricted to the chat list will discourage people from asking such questions.
100% agreed.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Marcio
 

Gene,
This address
chat+help@nvda.groups.io
Refers to the address which you send a blank message to get all information regarding a group.
Blindtech, Techtalk and every other groups.io list has the same address.
See: help+techtalk@groups.io
It's not another subgroup :)
Hope it makes sense.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 14/04/2019 09:10, Gene disse:

Here is the section from the reboot document.  At the end, it says that only main list members can subscribe to the chat list, single.  But three separate subscription addresses are given.  Do these all lead to the same chat list?  As I said, this needs to be clarified. 
 
"Again, for your convenience, the Chat Subgroup addresses are:
• Subscribe: chat+subscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Post: chat@nvda.groups.io
• Unsubscribe: chat+unsubscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Group Owner: chat+owner@nvda.groups.io
• Help: chat+help@nvda.groups.io
Only members of the NVDA Group are eligible to subscribe to the Chat Subgroup, ..."
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

I don't know if there are three help lists, or if the reboot message just makes it seem as though there are.  I seem to find two, as I recall, on the NVDA site, but the reboot message seems to mention the chat list we are on, a help list and an owner's chat list.  We'll see if this is clarified.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Em 14/04/2019 00:51, Gene disse:
It appears, from the announcement message, that there are three chat groups.
Three chat groups, really? What are the other addresses apart from chat@nvda.groups.io?

Also, I would think that requests for help concerning using the list should be allowed on the main list.  While these questions don't deal with using NVDA directly, the purpose of the list is to provide information and discussion about using NVDA and how to use this list is directly related to its purpose.  Making such a distinction, asking that questions about how to use list features or how to contact the owner, etc. if attempted to be restricted to the chat list will discourage people from asking such questions.
100% agreed.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Gene
 

The nonchat versions of both the help link and contact the owner should be given and their purposes explained.  they aren't chat links.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Gene,
This address
chat+help@nvda.groups.io
Refers to the address which you send a blank message to get all information regarding a group.
Blindtech, Techtalk and every other groups.io list has the same address.
See: help+techtalk@groups.io
It's not another subgroup :)
Hope it makes sense.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 14/04/2019 09:10, Gene disse:
Here is the section from the reboot document.  At the end, it says that only main list members can subscribe to the chat list, single.  But three separate subscription addresses are given.  Do these all lead to the same chat list?  As I said, this needs to be clarified. 
 
"Again, for your convenience, the Chat Subgroup addresses are:
• Subscribe: chat+subscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Post: chat@nvda.groups.io
• Unsubscribe: chat+unsubscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Group Owner: chat+owner@nvda.groups.io
• Help: chat+help@nvda.groups.io
Only members of the NVDA Group are eligible to subscribe to the Chat Subgroup, ..."
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

I don't know if there are three help lists, or if the reboot message just makes it seem as though there are.  I seem to find two, as I recall, on the NVDA site, but the reboot message seems to mention the chat list we are on, a help list and an owner's chat list.  We'll see if this is clarified.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Em 14/04/2019 00:51, Gene disse:
It appears, from the announcement message, that there are three chat groups.
Three chat groups, really? What are the other addresses apart from chat@nvda.groups.io?

Also, I would think that requests for help concerning using the list should be allowed on the main list.  While these questions don't deal with using NVDA directly, the purpose of the list is to provide information and discussion about using NVDA and how to use this list is directly related to its purpose.  Making such a distinction, asking that questions about how to use list features or how to contact the owner, etc. if attempted to be restricted to the chat list will discourage people from asking such questions.
100% agreed.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Sarah k Alawami
 

I actually disagree. The nvda list should be restricted to nvda and nothing else. My skype list is restricted to skype and nothing else. If they need help they can read the manuals and articles on groups.io and if they need more help they can contact me privately. Out of the 500 subs on the list I've only ben asked once. Plus I post stuff that is sticky so those viewing the archive can look right away for help in using this platform.

Take care

On 14 Apr 2019, at 4:44, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

Em 14/04/2019 00:51, Gene disse:
It appears, from the announcement message, that there are three chat groups.
Three chat groups, really? What are the other addresses apart from chat@nvda.groups.io?

Also, I would think that requests for help concerning using the list should be allowed on the main list.  While these questions don't deal with using NVDA directly, the purpose of the list is to provide information and discussion about using NVDA and how to use this list is directly related to its purpose.  Making such a distinction, asking that questions about how to use list features or how to contact the owner, etc. if attempted to be restricted to the chat list will discourage people from asking such questions.
100% agreed.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Sarah k Alawami
 

Uh, no that's very clear. It's obvious what these do. The hep email is a robo mail thing where you can get help using this and other groups on groups.io. The owner email will obviously go to the owners and not on the list.. The post address does what it says and the sub and unsub address are obvious enough.

On 14 Apr 2019, at 5:10, Gene wrote:

Here is the section from the reboot document.  At the end, it says that only main list members can subscribe to the chat list, single.  But three separate subscription addresses are given.  Do these all lead to the same chat list?  As I said, this needs to be clarified. 
 
"Again, for your convenience, the Chat Subgroup addresses are:
• Subscribe: chat+subscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Post: chat@nvda.groups.io
• Unsubscribe: chat+unsubscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Group Owner: chat+owner@nvda.groups.io
• Help: chat+help@nvda.groups.io
Only members of the NVDA Group are eligible to subscribe to the Chat Subgroup, ...."
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

I don't know if there are three help lists, or if the reboot message just makes it seem as though there are.  I seem to find two, as I recall, on the NVDA site, but the reboot message seems to mention the chat list we are on, a help list and an owner's chat list.  We'll see if this is clarified.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Em 14/04/2019 00:51, Gene disse:
It appears, from the announcement message, that there are three chat groups.
Three chat groups, really? What are the other addresses apart from chat@nvda.groups.io?

Also, I would think that requests for help concerning using the list should be allowed on the main list.  While these questions don't deal with using NVDA directly, the purpose of the list is to provide information and discussion about using NVDA and how to use this list is directly related to its purpose.  Making such a distinction, asking that questions about how to use list features or how to contact the owner, etc. if attempted to be restricted to the chat list will discourage people from asking such questions.
100% agreed.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Sarah k Alawami
 

No they shoudl not be. If you have ben on email lists for 20 years like Ihave you will know the difference. If not you will still know the difference. It is quite obvious.

Take care

On 14 Apr 2019, at 6:15, Gene wrote:

The nonchat versions of both the help link and contact the owner should be given and their purposes explained.  they aren't chat links.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Gene,
This address
chat+help@nvda.groups.io
Refers to the address which you send a blank message to get all information regarding a group.
Blindtech, Techtalk and every other groups.io list has the same address.
See: help+techtalk@groups.io
It's not another subgroup :)
Hope it makes sense.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 14/04/2019 09:10, Gene disse:
Here is the section from the reboot document.  At the end, it says that only main list members can subscribe to the chat list, single.  But three separate subscription addresses are given.  Do these all lead to the same chat list?  As I said, this needs to be clarified. 
 
"Again, for your convenience, the Chat Subgroup addresses are:
• Subscribe: chat+subscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Post: chat@nvda.groups.io
• Unsubscribe: chat+unsubscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Group Owner: chat+owner@nvda.groups.io
• Help: chat+help@nvda.groups.io
Only members of the NVDA Group are eligible to subscribe to the Chat Subgroup, ..."
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

I don't know if there are three help lists, or if the reboot message just makes it seem as though there are.  I seem to find two, as I recall, on the NVDA site, but the reboot message seems to mention the chat list we are on, a help list and an owner's chat list.  We'll see if this is clarified.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Em 14/04/2019 00:51, Gene disse:
It appears, from the announcement message, that there are three chat groups.
Three chat groups, really? What are the other addresses apart from chat@nvda.groups.io?

Also, I would think that requests for help concerning using the list should be allowed on the main list.  While these questions don't deal with using NVDA directly, the purpose of the list is to provide information and discussion about using NVDA and how to use this list is directly related to its purpose.  Making such a distinction, asking that questions about how to use list features or how to contact the owner, etc. if attempted to be restricted to the chat list will discourage people from asking such questions.
100% agreed.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Brian Vogel
 

The information presented is consistent with what is offered on every Groups.io home page and what comes in the message that is returned by sending a message to a group help address.

The nature of these addresses has been precisely the same since the inception of Groups.io, for every group, and Groups.io has been in existence since 2016.

No further explanation will be forthcoming nor is it necessary.   
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year’s fashions . . .

       ~ Lillian Hellman, Letter to House Un-American Activities Committee, 5/19/1952

Brian Vogel
 

Also, it is consistent, across all groups.io groups in which I participate, that questions regarding interacting with the group itself are always permitted, on every group.

Given this universal convention, and the infrequent need for such topics overall, there should be no need to explicitly discuss it.

Rules and guidelines documents, regardless of where they apply to, cannot be of infinite length and deal with every "what if" and do not restate common cultural practices of a given venue.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year’s fashions . . .

       ~ Lillian Hellman, Letter to House Un-American Activities Committee, 5/19/1952

Sarah k Alawami
 

Agreed. Either RTFM, or if you don't agree and don't like the way it is, there's the virtual door. Either groups.io's way or the high way.

On 14 Apr 2019, at 8:25, Brian Vogel wrote:

The information presented is consistent with what is offered on every Groups.io home page and what comes in the message that is returned by sending a message to a group help address.

The nature of these addresses has been precisely the same since the inception of Groups.io, for every group, and Groups.io has been in existence since 2016.

No further explanation will be forthcoming nor is it necessary.   
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year’s fashions . . .

       ~ Lillian Hellman, Letter to House Un-American Activities Committee, 5/19/1952

Sarah k Alawami
 

Yeay I still say that no help should be given on this subject. People can read and if they cannot, that is not our problem. If they fail to find the answers again that is not our problem. They need to learn how to use the tools they have at hand. If they cannot that again is not our problem. Yes I would train someone in tech this way. If they fail to learn that is not my problem but theirs.

On 14 Apr 2019, at 8:30, Brian Vogel wrote:

Also, it is consistent, across all groups.io groups in which I participate, that questions regarding interacting with the group itself are always permitted, on every group.

Given this universal convention, and the infrequent need for such topics overall, there should be no need to explicitly discuss it.

Rules and guidelines documents, regardless of where they apply to, cannot be of infinite length and deal with every "what if" and do not restate common cultural practices of a given venue.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year’s fashions . . .

       ~ Lillian Hellman, Letter to House Un-American Activities Committee, 5/19/1952

Brian Vogel
 

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:34 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Agreed. Either RTFM, or if you don't agree and don't like the way it is, there's the virtual door. Either groups.io's way or the high way.
Sarah, even that is a gross overstatement.

You are correct, though, that anyone deciding to enter a given venue must, and I do mean must, do what they need to do to familiarize themselves with what that entails as much as possible beforehand, and largely independently.   Of course questions for assistance should be responded to, and often with pointers (links, usually) to the documentation or previous conversation that answered same.

It's not, really, a "My way or the highway!," scenario in any meaningful sense of the phrase.   When one anticipates joining a cyber-venue there are questions to be asked and answers to be sought before doing so and some that will occur after doing so.   Time should be taken after joining to "lurk" and get the lay of the land and the personalities before jumping right in, or you have the potential to put your proverbial foot in it.

I fully expect all adults to know this or that they will learn it from their own mistakes.   We are decades into the cyber cultures of mailing lists and online forums, and the vast majority of folks who are joining either these days are not neophytes to the basic workings of either.   To presume otherwise would be the height of foolishness.  I also fully expect said adults to have sought out answers to simple questions independently before asking.  Every message to a mailing list is an imposition on the time of many, many others.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year’s fashions . . .

       ~ Lillian Hellman, Letter to House Un-American Activities Committee, 5/19/1952

Sarah k Alawami
 

Which is why I post a sticky at the top of every list, or try to detailing how things work and point to it in the footer of the messages, if I remember to do so. It just works that way very well. And remember, I'm the queen of overstatements. Again if the person cannot and will not understand how any list platform such as mailman, google, what ever is out there now a days will work that is not our problem, but the member's problem in my humble opinion. We are here to mod not to teach, Well, not this list. I'm not mod, but you get my point.

On 14 Apr 2019, at 8:46, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:34 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Agreed. Either RTFM, or if you don't agree and don't like the way it is, there's the virtual door. Either groups.io's way or the high way.
Sarah, even that is a gross overstatement.

You are correct, though, that anyone deciding to enter a given venue must, and I do mean must, do what they need to do to familiarize themselves with what that entails as much as possible beforehand, and largely independently.   Of course questions for assistance should be responded to, and often with pointers (links, usually) to the documentation or previous conversation that answered same.

It's not, really, a "My way or the highway!," scenario in any meaningful sense of the phrase.   When one anticipates joining a cyber-venue there are questions to be asked and answers to be sought before doing so and some that will occur after doing so.   Time should be taken after joining to "lurk" and get the lay of the land and the personalities before jumping right in, or you have the potential to put your proverbial foot in it.

I fully expect all adults to know this or that they will learn it from their own mistakes.   We are decades into the cyber cultures of mailing lists and online forums, and the vast majority of folks who are joining either these days are not neophytes to the basic workings of either.   To presume otherwise would be the height of foolishness.  I also fully expect said adults to have sought out answers to simple questions independently before asking.  Every message to a mailing list is an imposition on the time of many, many others.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year’s fashions . . .

       ~ Lillian Hellman, Letter to House Un-American Activities Committee, 5/19/1952

Gene
 

Instead of just making assertions, explain why unclear descriptions and chat addresses that don't lead to chat functions is obvious.  If you can't, then you haven't demonstrated that it is obvious.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

No they shoudl not be. If you have ben on email lists for 20 years like Ihave you will know the difference. If not you will still know the difference. It is quite obvious.

Take care

On 14 Apr 2019, at 6:15, Gene wrote:

The nonchat versions of both the help link and contact the owner should be given and their purposes explained.  they aren't chat links.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Gene,
This address
chat+help@nvda.groups.io
Refers to the address which you send a blank message to get all information regarding a group.
Blindtech, Techtalk and every other groups.io list has the same address.
See: help+techtalk@groups.io
It's not another subgroup :)
Hope it makes sense.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 14/04/2019 09:10, Gene disse:
Here is the section from the reboot document.  At the end, it says that only main list members can subscribe to the chat list, single.  But three separate subscription addresses are given.  Do these all lead to the same chat list?  As I said, this needs to be clarified. 
 
"Again, for your convenience, the Chat Subgroup addresses are:
• Subscribe: chat+subscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Post: chat@nvda.groups.io
• Unsubscribe: chat+unsubscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Group Owner: chat+owner@nvda.groups.io
• Help: chat+help@nvda.groups.io
Only members of the NVDA Group are eligible to subscribe to the Chat Subgroup, ..."
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

I don't know if there are three help lists, or if the reboot message just makes it seem as though there are.  I seem to find two, as I recall, on the NVDA site, but the reboot message seems to mention the chat list we are on, a help list and an owner's chat list.  We'll see if this is clarified.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Em 14/04/2019 00:51, Gene disse:
It appears, from the announcement message, that there are three chat groups.
Three chat groups, really? What are the other addresses apart from chat@nvda.groups.io?

Also, I would think that requests for help concerning using the list should be allowed on the main list.  While these questions don't deal with using NVDA directly, the purpose of the list is to provide information and discussion about using NVDA and how to use this list is directly related to its purpose.  Making such a distinction, asking that questions about how to use list features or how to contact the owner, etc. if attempted to be restricted to the chat list will discourage people from asking such questions.
100% agreed.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Sarah k Alawami
 

Look at the context of the words. Help, unsubscribe? Subscribe? Owner? Yea help emails you help about the list, owner emails the owner of the list, unsubscribe makes you leave the list and subscribe does the contrary. All of this is true on any list serve platform I've ben on and I've ben on pretty much all of them over the past maybe almost 20 years. News groups anybody? Those were the days.

On 14 Apr 2019, at 9:02, Gene wrote:

Instead of just making assertions, explain why unclear descriptions and chat addresses that don't lead to chat functions is obvious.  If you can't, then you haven't demonstrated that it is obvious.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

No they shoudl not be. If you have ben on email lists for 20 years like Ihave you will know the difference. If not you will still know the difference. It is quite obvious.

Take care

On 14 Apr 2019, at 6:15, Gene wrote:

The nonchat versions of both the help link and contact the owner should be given and their purposes explained.  they aren't chat links.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Gene,
This address
chat+help@nvda.groups.io
Refers to the address which you send a blank message to get all information regarding a group.
Blindtech, Techtalk and every other groups.io list has the same address.
See: help+techtalk@groups.io
It's not another subgroup :)
Hope it makes sense.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 14/04/2019 09:10, Gene disse:
Here is the section from the reboot document.  At the end, it says that only main list members can subscribe to the chat list, single.  But three separate subscription addresses are given.  Do these all lead to the same chat list?  As I said, this needs to be clarified. 
 
"Again, for your convenience, the Chat Subgroup addresses are:
• Subscribe: chat+subscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Post: chat@nvda.groups.io
• Unsubscribe: chat+unsubscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Group Owner: chat+owner@nvda.groups.io
• Help: chat+help@nvda.groups.io
Only members of the NVDA Group are eligible to subscribe to the Chat Subgroup, ..."
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

I don't know if there are three help lists, or if the reboot message just makes it seem as though there are.  I seem to find two, as I recall, on the NVDA site, but the reboot message seems to mention the chat list we are on, a help list and an owner's chat list.  We'll see if this is clarified.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Em 14/04/2019 00:51, Gene disse:
It appears, from the announcement message, that there are three chat groups.
Three chat groups, really? What are the other addresses apart from chat@nvda.groups.io?

Also, I would think that requests for help concerning using the list should be allowed on the main list.  While these questions don't deal with using NVDA directly, the purpose of the list is to provide information and discussion about using NVDA and how to use this list is directly related to its purpose.  Making such a distinction, asking that questions about how to use list features or how to contact the owner, etc. if attempted to be restricted to the chat list will discourage people from asking such questions.
100% agreed.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Gene
 

This is my last message on this topic.
 
you make a major point of saying that questions about working with NVDA are on topic.  You indicate an occasional exception.  For people unfamiliar with general list conventions, this strongly implies that asking for help with the list itself on list is off topic.  This list consists of a lot of people, many of whom do not have knowledge of list convensions such as you site.  Adding one more sentence saying, something like, "an exception is that asking for help working with the list such as how to temporarily stop delivery of mail or how to use the archives is allowed." doesn't make the message longer in any meaningful way and it will clarify an important point for many people. 
 
Gene 
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Also, it is consistent, across all groups.io groups in which I participate, that questions regarding interacting with the group itself are always permitted, on every group.

Given this universal convention, and the infrequent need for such topics overall, there should be no need to explicitly discuss it.

Rules and guidelines documents, regardless of where they apply to, cannot be of infinite length and deal with every "what if" and do not restate common cultural practices of a given venue.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year’s fashions . . .

       ~ Lillian Hellman, Letter to House Un-American Activities Committee, 5/19/1952

Gene
 

You are not discussing what I'm discussing.  There are chat addresses given to nonchat functions such as the help address.  Obviously, I'm not talking about such things as subscribe or unsubscribe links. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Look at the context of the words. Help, unsubscribe? Subscribe? Owner? Yea help emails you help about the list, owner emails the owner of the list, unsubscribe makes you leave the list and subscribe does the contrary. All of this is true on any list serve platform I've ben on and I've ben on pretty much all of them over the past maybe almost 20 years. News groups anybody? Those were the days.

On 14 Apr 2019, at 9:02, Gene wrote:

Instead of just making assertions, explain why unclear descriptions and chat addresses that don't lead to chat functions is obvious.  If you can't, then you haven't demonstrated that it is obvious.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

No they shoudl not be. If you have ben on email lists for 20 years like Ihave you will know the difference. If not you will still know the difference. It is quite obvious.

Take care

On 14 Apr 2019, at 6:15, Gene wrote:

The nonchat versions of both the help link and contact the owner should be given and their purposes explained.  they aren't chat links.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Gene,
This address
chat+help@nvda.groups.io
Refers to the address which you send a blank message to get all information regarding a group.
Blindtech, Techtalk and every other groups.io list has the same address.
See: help+techtalk@groups.io
It's not another subgroup :)
Hope it makes sense.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 14/04/2019 09:10, Gene disse:
Here is the section from the reboot document.  At the end, it says that only main list members can subscribe to the chat list, single.  But three separate subscription addresses are given.  Do these all lead to the same chat list?  As I said, this needs to be clarified. 
 
"Again, for your convenience, the Chat Subgroup addresses are:
• Subscribe: chat+subscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Post: chat@nvda.groups.io
• Unsubscribe: chat+unsubscribe@nvda.groups.io
• Group Owner: chat+owner@nvda.groups.io
• Help: chat+help@nvda.groups.io
Only members of the NVDA Group are eligible to subscribe to the Chat Subgroup, ..."
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

I don't know if there are three help lists, or if the reboot message just makes it seem as though there are.  I seem to find two, as I recall, on the NVDA site, but the reboot message seems to mention the chat list we are on, a help list and an owner's chat list.  We'll see if this is clarified.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [chat] Three chat groups?

Em 14/04/2019 00:51, Gene disse:
It appears, from the announcement message, that there are three chat groups.
Three chat groups, really? What are the other addresses apart from chat@nvda.groups.io?

Also, I would think that requests for help concerning using the list should be allowed on the main list.  While these questions don't deal with using NVDA directly, the purpose of the list is to provide information and discussion about using NVDA and how to use this list is directly related to its purpose.  Making such a distinction, asking that questions about how to use list features or how to contact the owner, etc. if attempted to be restricted to the chat list will discourage people from asking such questions.
100% agreed.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

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