Recently, The New York Times has stopped using the word "by" before the names of authors of articles.  I have no idea how they decide which articles do do this with.  A lot still have the word, an annoying number don't. 

I'm curious about why they do this.  Brian, do you have any idea?  Have they changed something where not using the word by is somehow more asthetic?

I search for the word by on that site as a way to move to within two lines of the beginning of article text.  It not being there is an inconvenience and wastes my time.

This also raises the question of why aria, or some other method isn't used by sites so a screen-reader user can move immediately to the beginning of the text of articles, skipping teasers and opening captions.  Aria has been used for a long time now.  I don't see why it hasn't been used in such an obvious way.

Gene

I just checked.  Moving from the top of a page on The Times site containing an article, moving by land mark first takes you to the title of the article.  Moving again takes you far beyond the title.  So the first landmark duplicates what headings already do and the second landmark is useless. 

Gene
On 6/3/2022 7:20 AM, Gene wrote:

Recently, The New York Times has stopped using the word "by" before the names of authors of articles.  I have no idea how they decide which articles do do this with.  A lot still have the word, an annoying number don't. 

I'm curious about why they do this.  Brian, do you have any idea?  Have they changed something where not using the word by is somehow more asthetic?

I search for the word by on that site as a way to move to within two lines of the beginning of article text.  It not being there is an inconvenience and wastes my time.

This also raises the question of why aria, or some other method isn't used by sites so a screen-reader user can move immediately to the beginning of the text of articles, skipping teasers and opening captions.  Aria has been used for a long time now.  I don't see why it hasn't been used in such an obvious way.

Gene

If you are a subscriber, and it sounds like you are, you should take this up with the NYT.
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.

        ~ Mark Twain

I am a NYT subscriber.  Can you point me to a couple of examples of "by-less" articles.  The random sampling I just tried all had "By {author name}" in them.

I'm curious to see what the structure of those articles that don't looks like.
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.

        ~ Mark Twain

Gene,

Interesting, because when you hover over the actual author name shown, even the URL for the author information includes the word "by" as one of the elements in the URL path itself.

My only suggestion to you is that you might want to start searching on the em-dash:  —
This character almost invariably appears between the city designation for where the article originated and the first words of the article itself.

The Em Dash is unicode character 2014 and in Word you can insert an Em Dash by typing 2014 then immediately hitting ALT + X, which converts the character code into the character itself.

I grabbed that Em-dash that I pasted straight out of the NYT itself, and if you do a search on it you will land one character ahead of the start of the article text in the majority of instances.
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.

        ~ Mark Twain

Gene,

I agree with you.  To my mind, the "Skip to content" link should take you to the opening line of an article, but I've played with it and it doesn't.

There is an interesting combination of articles with "by" lines, which are often absent a city of filing and em dash, articles with city of filing and emdash, and probably the occasional article, or at least the live "ticker" type articles, that have neither.

Why there would not be some sort of landmark (and I mean that broadly, though it could truly use a landmark) to denote the beginning of text content
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.

        ~ Mark Twain

Gene wrote:

This also raises the question of why aria, or some other method isn't used by sites so a screen-reader user can move immediately to the beginning of the
text of articles, skipping teasers and opening captions.  Aria has been used for a long time now.  I don't see why it hasn't been used in such an obvious
way.

I believe the Jump To Next/Previous Article commands are supposed to solve this problem. Have you tried them?

Assign them to some key combination in Browse mode Input Gestures, and determine the result.
Landmark usage has always been, and continues to be, very site-dependent and ineffective.

Luke

I believe the Jump To Next/Previous Article commands are supposed to solve this problem. Have you tried them?

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I'd never heard of these and will be curious to see what Gene has to say if he tries them.  One would have to believe that these commands depend on some sort of fixed marker to determine what constitutes "beginning of article."
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.

        ~ Mark Twain

I just looked at the user guide and I found nothing about what an article is.  I checked the input gestures dialog and the only thing I found was that I could assign a key to toggle reporting of articles on and off.  I know of no quick navigation command to move by article.  It appears to me that the designation article indicates when you are entering article text.  In short, it appears to do nothing more than I can do using move by heading on a Times page to get to the title or move by landmark to get to the same title when on a page containing an article..

The Times should provide a way to use land marks to move immediately to the text of an article, which often begins about fifteen lines below the title.

If you know of a way to assign a key to move by article, I'd be curious to know. 

Gene
On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 05:12 PM, Luke Davis wrote:

I believe the Jump To Next/Previous Article commands are supposed to solve this problem. Have you tried them?

-
I'd never heard of these and will be curious to see what Gene has to say if he tries them.  One would have to believe that these commands depend on some sort of fixed marker to determine what constitutes "beginning of article."
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.

        ~ Mark Twain

Here is an interesting Github ticket I found about articles.

I'll look at the gestures dialog again to see if I missed something because the ticket indicates you can assign a key to move by heading.

But as the ticket also makes clear, this moves you to the beginning, the title, of an article.  It doesn't move you to the text of the article.
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/11103

Gene

On 6/3/2022 4:38 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

I just looked at the user guide and I found nothing about what an article is.  I checked the input gestures dialog and the only thing I found was that I could assign a key to toggle reporting of articles on and off.  I know of no quick navigation command to move by article.  It appears to me that the designation article indicates when you are entering article text.  In short, it appears to do nothing more than I can do using move by heading on a Times page to get to the title or move by landmark to get to the same title when on a page containing an article..

The Times should provide a way to use land marks to move immediately to the text of an article, which often begins about fifteen lines below the title.

If you know of a way to assign a key to move by article, I'd be curious to know. 

Gene
On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 05:12 PM, Luke Davis wrote:

I believe the Jump To Next/Previous Article commands are supposed to solve this problem. Have you tried them?

-
I'd never heard of these and will be curious to see what Gene has to say if he tries them.  One would have to believe that these commands depend on some sort of fixed marker to determine what constitutes "beginning of article."
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.

        ~ Mark Twain

Gene wrote:

 I checked the input gestures dialog and the only thing I found was that I
could assign a key to toggle reporting of articles on and off.  I know of no quick navigation command to move by article.

Please open a web browser to a page, so that you are in browse mode. Then, Press NVDA+N, P, N. Then Shift+tab once, and type "article" in the search box. Then tab to the search results, and you should find assignments for next/prev article.

Luke