Re: Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi David,

All good points.  I believe I read something about businesses still being able to get support for XP, which I think runs along the lines of "you can get whatever you want if you can pay for it".  For the average user, Microsoft has ended support for XP, as have many other companies.  How safe or not you are running XP gets very murky very quickly.  Often, the potential problems are in security vulnerabilities that might not even be obvious.  For instance, here's an article from earlier this year on a vulnerability with the way Windows handles fonts and graphics: http://www.zdnet.com/article/all-versions-of-windows-hit-by-critical-security-vulnerabilities/ .  Microsoft has fixed the flaw, but ONLY for versions of Windows which are still supported, meaning if you are running Windows XP, there is nothing you can do.  Ok they said it wasn't believed to be actively being exploited in the wild, but still it's there if anyone ever does decide to.  With vulnerabilities in the operating system, it's possible (I haven't looked into it so I'm just speculating randomly) that such flaws could be deeper than an anti virus program can protect against.

It really then comes down to what you use your computer for.  If you write novels on it in Word 97 and that works for you and it never sees an internet connection - no problem, go wild, keep using it for the next 40 years if it holds up.  The problems really only start when you connect it to the internet.  If you are still using Windows XP, for whatever reason, it's important to be aware of the risks, what you can do to minimise them, and how to monitor for problems.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 7:31 PM, David <trailerdavid@...> wrote:
Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


 From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally, I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
> Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be honest
> microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
> computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
> says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it is.
> Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
> will be then we will have to struggle with 10.
>
>
>
> On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:
>> please, do not get rid of xp support.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
>> <quentin@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>
>>
>> That's true Gene.  I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
>> although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
>> Potplayer, it
>> was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows
>> 7 as
>> well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
>>
>>> And, of course, you aren't testing with XP.  That may be the cause of
>>> these problems.
>>>
>>> Gene
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
>>> release,
>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one
>>> Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.
>>>
>>> It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around
>>> the
>>> main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
>>> However,
>>> you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
>>> keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.
>>>
>>> I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
>>> play
>>> MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
>>> finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
>>> I'm
>>> using NVDA 2016.4rc1  Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on
>>> the
>>> Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
>>> again, I
>>> couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>> Quentin.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, That is true,
>>>>
>>>> Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
>>>> controls
>>>> that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one
>>>> learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
>>>> powful in
>>>> win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
>>>> Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or
>>>> Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.
>>>>
>>>> David Moore
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>> Windows 10
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
>>>> *Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
>>>> *To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
>>>> release,
>>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just for your correction.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do
>>>>
>>>> understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
>>>> holds
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from
>>>>
>>>> being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out.
>>>> For
>>>>
>>>> instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give
>>>>
>>>> you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.
>>>>
>>>> If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at
>>>>
>>>> the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage
>>>>
>>>> all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give
>>>>
>>>> Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end
>>>>
>>>> screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a
>>>>
>>>> software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
>>>> able
>>>>
>>>> to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
>>>> expect.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do
>>>> have
>>>>
>>>> downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
>>>> install at
>>>>
>>>> least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
>>>> determine if
>>>>
>>>> NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide
>>>>
>>>> you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60
>>>>
>>>> minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
>>>> software
>>>>
>>>> is workable or not.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes
>>>>
>>>> caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the
>>>> case
>>>>
>>>> any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,
>>>>
>>>> encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen
>>>>
>>>> reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech
>>>>
>>>> team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe
>>>>
>>>> what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted
>>>>
>>>> anything but Burger-King?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > gene.
>>>>
>>>> > thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
>>>>
>>>> > i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
>>>>
>>>> > me too, use windows xp service pack 3
>>>>
>>>> > you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.
>>>>
>>>> > you should only press the application keys and you can access to all
>>>>
>>>> > menus and options by normal arrow keys.
>>>>
>>>> > only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
>>>>
>>>> > i should restart nvda to work as normal.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> > On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever
>>>>
>>>> >> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
>>>> wrong
>>>> with
>>>>
>>>> >> that.")
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
>>>> encounters an
>>>>
>>>> >> issue with any software or combination of software:
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
>>>> there's
>>>>
>>>> >> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
>>>>
>>>> >> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
>>>> others
>>>>
>>>> >> running the same operating system and similar overall configuration
>>>> that you
>>>>
>>>> >> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an
>>>>
>>>> >> idiosyncratic problem with your own system
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given
>>>> problem
>>>>
>>>> >> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
>>>> programs
>>>> that
>>>>
>>>> >> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
>>>> files >> are
>>>>
>>>> >> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but
>>>> these
>>>>
>>>> >> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when
>>>> "it's
>>>>
>>>> >> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."  Having a
>>>>
>>>> >> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
>>>>
>>>> >> --
>>>>
>>>> >> *Brian*
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
>>>> complete.
>>>> If
>>>>
>>>> >> you’re alive, it isn’t.*
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >>     ~ Lauren Bacall
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Quentin Christensen
>>> Training Material Developer
>>> Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
>>> available:
>>> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>
>>> Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
>>> Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
>>> www.nvaccess.org
>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> .
>







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

Join nvda@nvda.groups.io to automatically receive all group messages.