Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

Hi,
Mostly have to do with components NVDA uses.
As for Python and other technical matters, I think it is a bit advanced for many, so let's move it to development list.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 6:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

joseph, did you mean supporting of xp is depending on the programming language that you use?
which version of python do you use now?

and did python 3 stop support of xp?
how about visual studio?
does visual studio 2015 that now you use, support xp and since which version of studio supporting of xp is stopped?

On 12/6/16, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
The following may come across as a bit hard to swallow, but please
bear with
me:
A building that began to crumble from its foundation will soon
collapse completely, but one can save many lives by evacuating its
occupants in an orderly fashion.
Personally, I believe that we should prepare to say goodbye to XP
soon, but do understand reasons why we should continue to accept
patrons who comes from XP. In the old days, technology was a
slow-moving car, but today, it is like a dew - fresh in the beginning,
but dries up shortly after. This will accelerate more in coming months
and years (for Windows 10 users, have you asked why there are two major upgrades in a span of one year?).
In case of XP support, one of the crucial components NVDA uses is
written for latest Visual Studio in mind, and if this component moves
to drop support for XP, NV Access will need to choose between moving
on or keeping old version alive. Another thing to consider is the fact
that newer Python versions dropped support for XP, and this is an even
bigger issue, given that some developers want to move to Python 3.
Ultimately, the mindset of screen reader users will determine to what
extent NVDA and other screen readers will support XP and for how long.
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior
to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

i realy wish and request that dont stop supporting of xp.

On 12/6/16, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
Er, ordered a hamburger but got a chicken sandwich instead...
Support for Windows XP depends on a number of things, the most
important being compiler support (NVDA isn't powered entirely by
Python; there are a couple components that are compiled by Visual
Studio compiler, and thankfully, the one NV Access uses supports
compiling NVDA to run on XP).
There will indeed come a time when NVDA will drop support for XP, and
this list will be one of the firsts to know when this happens well in
advance of end of support date. Same fate is awaiting Windows Vista
in
2017 - Windows Vista will be supported for a while though.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

please dont stop supporting of windows xp.
nvda is extremely great, even with continuation of supporting of all
operating systems that i love and also my softwares.
quentin, i decided to migrate to linux, but i only love nvda, my
current programs and cant learn new operating system and command
lines when installing softwares.
and one people replied that even i cant use nvda via vine on linux
and via vine, i cant use my windows programs because they are not
accessible even with using orca.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my
system, screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a
regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and
could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs
powerful system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going
to the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of
windows and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to
solve this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if
it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer
work due to the security of that operating system not allowing
access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp
with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the
amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates
by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for
MSSE, but his month no xp security updates came down. whether
this means they have blocked the loophole or just they have
given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express
that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue
is that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall
over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:- briang1@...,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year
ago - where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP
for businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for
the validity of the article, and do not know if I even
bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use
it offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the
database of your security software, that software will keep
rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer
flavor of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging
around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software that is needed for certain tasks, which would not
impose a security risk, but which cannot be run under newer
Windows.
That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I still need a
screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting
an OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will
leave many of us the chance to continue using our older
equipment, for tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where
they still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the
upgrade of the OS, and basically there might not be too much
more holes in XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows.
According to what I read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open
holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever reason are
not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are not
in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you
and the Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent
on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to
be honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os
now and any computer with it will have malware and be crappy
to because microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with
microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history,
soon 7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP
as well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original
question re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although
there are multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was
the same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't
tab around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and
there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what
they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that
I could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and
everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash,
even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA.
I highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator,
because it is getting more and more powful in win10, and
can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA,
and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I
do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and
completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP
and up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though
far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help
you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is
accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the
screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you
want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes
the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the
usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download
and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they
all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything
from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might
help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you
can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you
never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with
potplayer menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the
problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours
on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and
old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life
is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books
now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org







--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org







--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org

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