Re: Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Quentin Christensen
 

Nasrin,

I wasn't advocating switching to Linux.  For a sighted user, if it was primarily cost or not liking the newer versions of Windows, sure, Linux is free and works well on older hardware.  From an accessibility perspective, Linux isn't anywhere near where you are at with NVDA on Windows.

And no, we're not planning to end support for Windows XP.

Kind regards

Quentin.


On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:24 PM, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
please dont stop supporting of windows xp.
nvda is extremely great, even with continuation of supporting of all
operating systems that i love and also my softwares.
quentin, i decided to migrate to linux, but i only love nvda, my
current programs and cant learn new operating system and command lines
when installing softwares.
and one people replied that even i cant use nvda via vine on linux and
via vine, i cant use my windows programs because they are not
accessible even with using orca.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
> hi joseph.
> yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
> i did not change an important option for accessibility.
>
>
> hi david.
> my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
> but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
> i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
> moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
> recognize what he says and what message does he read!
> and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
> nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
> screen readers are not compatible with each other.
> you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
> trouble, but for me it causes!
>
>
> hi gene.
> i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
> versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4
> so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face
> such problem.
> yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
> mentioned, is 1.6.63856
> but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue
> myself.
> also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
> visual appearance, and its other settings.
> vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
> system.
> i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
> crashes of the program for me!
> and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
> i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
> the many websites.
> also, thanks so much for your link.
> i joined this and repeated my problem.
> the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!
>
>
> hi quentin.
> thanks extremely for your kindness.
> i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
> and also specific version of potplayer.
> i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
> regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.
>
> On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
>> hi jacob.
>> thanks so much for helping me.
>>
>> can you please test many files with potplayer?
>> eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
>> this problem.
>>
>> On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
>>> hi david and quentin.
>>> i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
>>> i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
>>> software.
>>> i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!
>>>
>>> On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>>>> You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
>>>> great
>>>> info!
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
>>>> bglists@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is
>>>>> at
>>>>> all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
>>>>> windows code changes.
>>>>> Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
>>>>> are
>>>>> very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
>>>>> you
>>>>> will find lots of things that no longer work due to the  security of
>>>>> that
>>>>> operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
>>>>> portable
>>>>> app.
>>>>> the big problem at present for those using XP is  the web browser.
>>>>> Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work
>>>>> on
>>>>> xp
>>>>> with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
>>>>> processors.
>>>>> This is due to the lack of sse2  instruction set support on the amd
>>>>> chips.
>>>>> Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
>>>>> processors at version 15,  though they do warn that this could change
>>>>> as
>>>>> its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of
>>>>> Dropbox
>>>>> is
>>>>> 13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
>>>>> working
>>>>> on
>>>>> such hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
>>>>> his
>>>>> month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
>>>>> blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
>>>>> I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
>>>>> but
>>>>> seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
>>>>> Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
>>>>> you
>>>>> are doing.
>>>>> Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
>>>>> works
>>>>> in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
>>>>> preview
>>>>> pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
>>>>> bglists@...
>>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
>>>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
>>>>> and
>>>>> thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
>>>>>> where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
>>>>>> businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
>>>>>> validity
>>>>>> of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
>>>>>> long
>>>>>> time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
>>>>>> software,
>>>>>> that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
>>>>>> who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
>>>>>> Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
>>>>>> Personally,
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
>>>>>> software
>>>>>> that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
>>>>>> risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
>>>>>> machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
>>>>>> And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
>>>>>> whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
>>>>>> continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
>>>>>> chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
>>>>>> well could be run on an offline, XP system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
>>>>>> basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
>>>>>> newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
>>>>>> seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
>>>>>> reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
>>>>>> not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> are running.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
>>>>>>> honest
>>>>>>> microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
>>>>>>> computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
>>>>>>> microsoft
>>>>>>> says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
>>>>>>> is.
>>>>>>> Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
>>>>>>> will be then we will have to struggle with 10.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> please, do not get rid of xp support.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
>>>>>>>> <quentin@...>
>>>>>>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
>>>>>>>> release,
>>>>>>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's true Gene.  I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
>>>>>>>> well,
>>>>>>>> although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
>>>>>>>> Potplayer, it
>>>>>>>> was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
>>>>>>>> Windows
>>>>>>>> 7 as
>>>>>>>> well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And, of course, you aren't testing with XP.  That may be the cause
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> these problems.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Gene
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> *From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
>>>>>>>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
>>>>>>>>> release,
>>>>>>>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>> Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
>>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
>>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>>> you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> play
>>>>>>>>> MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems
>>>>>>>>> fine?
>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>> using NVDA 2016.4rc1  Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
>>>>>>>>> again, I
>>>>>>>>> couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Quentin.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
>>>>>>>>> <jesusloves1966@...>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi, That is true,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
>>>>>>>>>> controls
>>>>>>>>>> that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>> learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
>>>>>>>>>> powful in
>>>>>>>>>> win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers
>>>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>>> Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
>>>>>>>>>> JAWS
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> David Moore
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Windows 10
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
>>>>>>>>>> *Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
>>>>>>>>>> *To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
>>>>>>>>>> release,
>>>>>>>>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just for your correction.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
>>>>>>>>>> true.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up
>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>> holds
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
>>>>>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>>>>> For
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
>>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
>>>>>>>>>> all.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
>>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
>>>>>>>>>> reader.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
>>>>>>>>>> encourage
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
>>>>>>>>>> high-end
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> expect.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers,
>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
>>>>>>>>>> install at
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
>>>>>>>>>> determine if
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
>>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> 60
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
>>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is workable or not.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
>>>>>>>>>> sometimes
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> case
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
>>>>>>>>>> screen
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
>>>>>>>>>> tech
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
>>>>>>>>>> describe
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
>>>>>>>>>> tasted
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> anything but Burger-King?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > gene.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > me too, use windows xp service pack 3
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
>>>>>>>>>> > menus.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > you should only press the application keys and you can access
>>>>>>>>>> > to
>>>>>>>>>> > all
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > menus and options by normal arrow keys.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
>>>>>>>>>> > unknown.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > i should restart nvda to work as normal.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
>>>>>>>>>> >> ever
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
>>>>>>>>>> >> anything
>>>>>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> that.")
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
>>>>>>>>>> encounters an
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> issue with any software or combination of software:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
>>>>>>>>>> there's
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem,
>>>>>>>>>> >> but
>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> running the same operating system and similar overall
>>>>>>>>>> >> configuration
>>>>>>>>>> that you
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
>>>>>>>>>> >> an
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> idiosyncratic problem with your own system
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
>>>>>>>>>> >> given
>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
>>>>>>>>>> programs
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
>>>>>>>>>> files >> are
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
>>>>>>>>>> >> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
>>>>>>>>>> >> anything,
>>>>>>>>>> >> but
>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
>>>>>>>>>> >> when
>>>>>>>>>> "it's
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
>>>>>>>>>> >> Having
>>>>>>>>>> >> a
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> *Brian*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
>>>>>>>>>> complete.
>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> you’re alive, it isn’t.*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>     ~ Lauren Bacall
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Quentin Christensen
>>>>>>>>> Training Material Developer
>>>>>>>>> Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
>>>>>>>>> available:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
>>>>>>>>> Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
>>>>>>>>> www.nvaccess.org
>>>>>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>>>>>>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Quentin Christensen
>>>> Training Material Developer
>>>> Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
>>>> available:
>>>> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>
>>>> Ph +61 7 3149 3306
>>>> Direct: +61 413 904 383
>>>> www.nvaccess.org
>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
>>> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
>>> in the very authentic narration is:
>>> imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
>>> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
>>> al-islam.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
>> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
>> in the very authentic narration is:
>> imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
>> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
>> al-islam.org
>>
>
>
> --
> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
> in the very authentic narration is:
> imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
> al-islam.org
>
>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org






--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

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