Re: Potential problem with the Remote addon


Ben J. Bloomgren
 

Gene,

No hard feelings, but Chris G did explain that very adequately before. In fact, I was the guy who system he was working with. Had he tried, he could not have made it any more simple than he did. I don't know how many times it's needed, or what you're looking for. Is a SilverPlatter required?

Again, I say this with all due respect and in good humor, but it's actually a pretty simple problem. How, by the way, is that band in a box addon going? Oh… Wait… never mind that comment.

As much as I love this list, I refuse to respond to this thread any further, on or off list. I trust that no one will attack Chris Mullins, Chris Gilland or me regarding this. I cannot stress this enough, but in black and white, there are neither hard feelings no disrespect toward anyone. If anyone detects condescension in this at all, that is not my intent.

Cheers,

Ben

On Dec 6, 2016, at 22:16, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

If you had explained this at the beginning, it would have saved a lot of confusion.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Shruggs, never mind. I'm tired of trying to explain this. It's not your fault. NO hard feelings. I just don't  know how simpiler to put this.
 
I am the controller. He is the controlee. He can hit F11 on his end. I however cannot as F11 toggles between me sending keys and not sending keys.
 
I get that with him being the controlee, he could hit F11 to his heart's content, and it wouldn't toggle between keystrokes being sent to him or not.
 
For him, if he hits F11, it would then simply perform the regular function of F11. If I hit it, it'll toggle. I get that. OK? Make that totally clear. I get it!
 
Here is where the problem is coming in though.
 
On his computer, the computer I am controlling, he's running a program which requires pressing of the F11 key to open a certain dialog within the program.
 
When focus is in that particular program, if he, not I, but he! hits F11, the dialog comes up no problem.
 
If I! hit F11 though, it toggles between sending keys and not sending keys.
 
So, if I am on his computer, and I'm sending keys to his system, I go to the start window, I navigate and open up that program, OK, you following me? I open up that program, on his? end, not on mine, the program launches and is in the foreground. I then press F11 to bring up that dialog. I instead hear not sending keys. The reason is because F11 on the controller's computer toggles  between the two machines. sending, and not sending, keystrokes.
 
So... he can hit F11, but if I'm carrying out a task helping him, I don't always want to have to say, hey Joe Blow, hit your F11 key, I can't hittit for you.
 
There needs to be a way to tell the Remote addon when on either! the remote controller's end or the controlee's end, either! it doesn't matter if you're sending keys or not. That's totally irrelavent. The point is, regardless, there needs to be an equal way that the controller also have full functionality of the keyboard. The controller needs a way to be able to send an F11 key to the controlee's machine. It  shouldn't always be up to the controlee to have to hit F11. Either person should have a way to be able to do it.
 
So, my logic of thinking was, OK, the Remote addon is obviously seeing when I hit F11 that I'm trying to switch between sending and not sending keystrokes. I don't want NVDA interpreting that and sending the F11 key through to the Remote addon, thereby toggling key sending on/off. I want to be sending key commands to the controlee's system. While doing so, I want to be able to press NVDA F2, pass a key through, this way, NVDA doesn't give two damns less about that F11 key. For all NVDA cares, I never pressed it to start with.
 
I need that NVDA+F2 to bypass the F11 key so that when I hit F11 while sending keys, the Remote addon doesn't detect the keystroke and toggle me back to my machine, but instead sends the F11 key to the controlee's system as a regular keyboard shortcut, thereby within the program in question activating sed dialog as a result of the F11 key being the command coded into this application to activate that screen.
 
What I was apparently trying to say in a not so good way, or so it seems, is that when I press the NVDA+F2 to pass the next keystroke through to the OS, bypassing NVDA and all addons accordingly, as soon as I do this and hear pass key through, if I then hit F11, the key isn't getting passed; it's still sending the F11 key through being interpreted by NVDA, thereby toggling me back to not sending key commands, same as if I'd just hit F11 without first passing the key through.
 
In practice, I'd think that if I pass a key through, then the next press of F11 should be sent to which ever machine I'm presently controlling, that is not what I'm observing though.
 
I really! really! really really really! really! can't make it any more childplay elementary comprehensible than this. I've spelled in black and white precisely down to a T what the problem is. I don't possess any skill of knowledge to make this easier put.
 
If this makes sense, then great, but if not, then I'm out of symantic ways to explain it.
 
Again, no hard feelings, but this really shouldn't be this hard to grasp.
 
Chris.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

You said “hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer” then  “He can hit F11 and obviously it works”.  I took this to mean you pressed NVDA+f2 to try and bypass the sendkey operation of f11 and send it to the remote computer.  If, when the guy on the remote computer presses f11 it works OK, why would you need to run an NVDA bypass command on that computer?

 

When a remote connection is made, the keyboard of the controlled computer works as normal, so f11 is f11.  On the keyboard of the controlling computer however, the f11 key acts as a sendkey toggle, so even if you are ‘sending keys’, the f11 keypress is never transmitted to the remote computer.  I suggested a double/triple keypress event as a sendkey toggle as this is more unlikely to be required by an app you are interacting with on a remote computer.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 20:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

But I want the bipass command and the F11 to be executed at the remote end.

 

I'm not sure how much more simple to put this.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:29 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn’t work because if you are sending keys, it’s executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.

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