Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
Yes, Gean, there were quite several times that I
outlined the situation. Anyway, there isn't any point in us arguing whether or
not you saw the messages. That's not productive. The point is, what can be done
to correct the problem, now that you know what it is, or, so I hope, at
least.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 1:00
AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem
with the Remote addon
I don't have the first messages any longer.
I may be wrong but I don't recall any detailed explanation such as was given
in the last message. If there was such an explanation, I'm sorry.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote
addon
Gene,
No hard feelings, but Chris G did explain that very adequately before. In
fact, I was the guy who system he was working with. Had he tried, he could not
have made it any more simple than he did. I don't know how many times it's
needed, or what you're looking for. Is a SilverPlatter required?
Again, I say this with all due respect and in good humor, but it's
actually a pretty simple problem. How, by the way, is that band in a box addon
going? Oh鈥 Wait鈥 never mind that comment.
As much as I love this list, I refuse to respond to this thread any
further, on or off list. I trust that no one will attack Chris Mullins, Chris
Gilland or me regarding this. I cannot stress this enough, but in black and
white, there are neither hard feelings no disrespect toward anyone. If anyone
detects condescension in this at all, that is not my intent.
Cheers,
Ben
If you had explained this at the beginning, it
would have saved a lot of confusion.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote
addon
Shruggs, never mind. I'm tired of trying to
explain this. It's not your fault. NO hard feelings. I just don't know
how simpiler to put this.
I am the controller. He is the controlee. He
can hit F11 on his end. I however cannot
as F11 toggles between me sending keys and not sending
keys.
I get that with him being the controlee, he could hit F11 to his
heart's content, and it wouldn't toggle between keystrokes being sent to him
or not.
For him, if he hits F11, it would then simply perform the regular
function of F11. If I hit it, it'll toggle. I get that. OK? Make that
totally clear. I get it!
Here is where the problem is coming in though.
On his computer, the computer I am controlling, he's running a program
which requires pressing of the F11 key to open a certain dialog within the
program.
When focus is in that particular program, if he, not I, but he! hits
F11, the dialog comes up no problem.
If I! hit F11 though, it toggles between sending keys and not sending
keys.
So, if I am on his computer, and I'm sending keys to his system, I go
to the start window, I navigate and open up that program, OK, you following
me? I open up that program, on his? end, not on mine, the program launches
and is in the foreground. I then press F11 to bring up that dialog. I
instead hear not sending keys. The reason is because F11 on the controller's
computer toggles between the two machines. sending, and not sending,
keystrokes.
So... he can hit F11, but if I'm carrying out a task helping him, I
don't always want to have to say, hey Joe Blow, hit your F11 key, I can't
hittit for you.
There needs to be a way to tell the Remote addon when on either! the
remote controller's end or the controlee's end, either! it doesn't matter if
you're sending keys or not. That's totally irrelavent. The point is,
regardless, there needs to be an equal way that the controller also have
full functionality of the keyboard. The controller needs a way to be able to
send an F11 key to the controlee's machine. It shouldn't always be up
to the controlee to have to hit F11. Either person should have a way to be
able to do it.
So, my logic of thinking was, OK, the Remote addon is obviously seeing
when I hit F11 that I'm trying to switch between sending and not sending
keystrokes. I don't want NVDA interpreting that and sending the F11 key
through to the Remote addon, thereby toggling key sending on/off. I want to
be sending key commands to the controlee's system. While doing so, I want to
be able to press NVDA F2, pass a key through, this way, NVDA doesn't give
two damns less about that F11 key. For all NVDA cares, I never pressed it to
start with.
I need that NVDA+F2 to bypass the F11 key so that when I hit F11 while
sending keys, the Remote addon doesn't detect the keystroke and toggle me
back to my machine, but instead sends the F11 key to the controlee's system
as a regular keyboard shortcut, thereby within the program in question
activating sed dialog as a result of the F11 key being the command coded
into this application to activate that screen.
What I was apparently trying to say in a not so good way, or so it
seems, is that when I press the NVDA+F2 to pass the next keystroke through
to the OS, bypassing NVDA and all addons accordingly, as soon as I do this
and hear pass key through, if I then hit F11, the key isn't getting passed;
it's still sending the F11 key through being interpreted by NVDA, thereby
toggling me back to not sending key commands, same as if I'd just hit F11
without first passing the key through.
In practice, I'd think that if I pass a key through, then the next
press of F11 should be sent to which ever machine I'm presently controlling,
that is not what I'm observing though.
I really! really! really really really! really! can't make it any more
childplay elementary comprehensible than this. I've spelled in black and
white precisely down to a T what the problem is. I don't possess any skill
of knowledge to make this easier put.
If this makes sense, then great, but if not, then I'm out of symantic
ways to explain it.
Again, no hard feelings, but this really shouldn't be this hard to
grasp.
Chris.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:00
PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem
with the Remote addon
You
said 鈥hearing NVDA
say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his
computer鈥 then 鈥淗e can hit F11 and obviously it works鈥. I took
this to mean you pressed NVDA+f2 to try and bypass the sendkey operation
of f11 and send it to the remote computer. If, when the guy on the
remote computer presses f11 it works OK, why would you need to run an NVDA
bypass command on that computer?
When a remote
connection is made, the keyboard of the controlled computer works as
normal, so f11 is f11. On the keyboard of the controlling computer
however, the f11 key acts as a sendkey toggle, so even if you are 鈥榮ending
keys鈥, the f11 keypress is never transmitted to the remote computer.
I suggested a double/triple keypress event as a sendkey toggle as this is
more unlikely to be required by an app you are interacting with on a
remote computer.
Cheers
Chris
But I want the
bipass command and the F11 to be executed at the remote
end.
I'm not sure
how much more simple to put this.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday,
December 06, 2016 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda]
Potential problem with the Remote addon
Hi
There
has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to
switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.
Using the bypass command doesn鈥檛 work because if you are sending keys,
it鈥檚 executing at the remote end. Perhaps the remote add-on could
be tweaked to use a double or triple tap of F11 to switch the key
sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any
other key.
Cheers
Chris
Yeah, I sent
it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all
good.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent: Monday,
December 05, 2016 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda]
Potential problem with the Remote addon
Yes, that
makes sense. I don't recall your original message but it makes
sense now.
------
Original Message -----
Sent: Monday,
December 05, 2016 4:48 PM
Subject: Re:
[nvda] Potential problem with the Remote
addon
Yes it does
make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an
app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the
keystrokes to perform a task within that application. So,
regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person
was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would
need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also
assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not
sending keys.
If I am
trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the
point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me,
but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one
form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not
99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on
his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because
F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so
therefore that takes
precedents
over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict.
This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way
the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying
to first do a pass key through.
If
this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to
explain it. Maybe someone else can.
Chris.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent: Monday,
December 05, 2016 5:37 PM
Subject: Re:
[nvda] Potential problem with the Remote
addon
It
doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing
the f11 command. This is clearly an NVDA add on command and
you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and
take an action.
Whatever
the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you
found.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent: Monday,
December 05, 2016 4:32 PM
Subject: [nvda]
Potential problem with the Remote
addon
So, a
friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was
controlling his computer.
The Addon
worked flawlessly with one exception: For whatever reason, you
know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I
talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was
told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the
way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass
key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his
computer, no matter what!
He! can
hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be
able to do this?
This
one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under
Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working.
It just acts like I did nothing at all.
Does
anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of
contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back
to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why
not?
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