Re: accessible word processors with NVDA


Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Sharni,

When you reply to a list message, it automatically goes to the list, but if you reply all, you can grab the address of the sender, or read the header information of the message I sent (depending on how you read your mail it will often include it) but my address is quentin@...  (Please note, I'm just saying that for information, not attacking you for not finding it - it's actually not obvious unless you know where to look!)


I just tried writing the line I mentioned earlier "the quick brown fox" with brown italicised, in word 2016, saving it as doc and rtf and opening in both Jarte and WordPad.  Neither wanted to open the doc file at all (Wordpad opened it all mangled - no actual text, and Jarte wanted that converter I linked to but never downloaded myself).  Opening the RTF file, both Jarte and WordPad read it fine, either navigating by word / character, or using say all or read line.  

Definitely what I would say is that if you are constantly opening files that were written in Microsoft Office, and the formatting etc is very important, then you really are best off biting the bullet and buying Office - no other program is guaranteed to open it properly.  If you write and save your own documents, then Jarte looks pretty good - as far as I notice, the issues we've been talking about have all been from importing a document from Word, is that correct?  Writing text in Jarte and then saving and reopening works fine?

Having said all that, I've been in situations at various times where I didn't have access to Word but needed to open a Word document and programs like Jarte and WordPad can do it almost always well enough to read and likely even edit.  It just depends on what you are doing, where you are getting your files and what you need to do with them.

Regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 9:08 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

Hi,


I've just made this file in Jarte itself, saved in .rtf. It behaves as I described below. Since it's a test file specifically created to demonstrate my issue, I have no problems sending it to the list at large. It's perfectly safe, guys!  

   
On 16/01/2017 8:58 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

Quentin,


I've noticed the opposite. I had Microsoft Word Starter 2010 on my original computer when I first got it, and then Microsoft Office 2013 when Mum bought me a license for one computer. NVDA always reads italics and bold as expected, only on the words that formatting is affecting. In Word Pad, saved into rtf for the purposes of reading and working with it in JARTE, the same files the emphasis is clearly announced in have it blurred. Single italicised words in the middle of lines are passed over, while words at the beginning of the line dictate whether the whole line will be treated as plain, italic or bold. When scrolling over it character by character, it doesn't do this, but when I use say-all, it behaves as I described. It may be something to do with Office messing things up even when the file's saved as rtf, but I remember noticing this a long time ago when I thought writing in word pad was my only means of writing. That resulted in me posting a chapter of a fanfiction with a whole chunk of text in italics that I never meant to be so.


I'd send a file, but your email doesn't seem to be tied to this message, only the email address of the list, and all the relevant files are of stories or parts of stories I have written. I'm quite protective of rough drafts of things...


On 16/01/2017 4:50 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Sharni,

No I'm not using anything special.  If you are re-using the same Word file over and over or the same template, it's possible there's something hidden in it that could be causing problems.  To be honest, I've more seen that in Office itself and opening a file in something other than office is more likely to fix it, but you never know.  If you have a file that's doing it, that you are happy to send me offline, I can have a look and see if it works on my computer.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

Quentin, do you have any addons or something that might have changed how NVDA reads Word Pad/Jarte files? I'd be super grateful. I'd have no problem using Jarte if I could read my stories with the proper emphasis included.


On 16/01/2017 10:24 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Sharni,

Re using Jarte and the Office compatibility pack, try this link from Microsoft directly: https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/details.aspx?id=3

The en-au in the middle of that address is because I'm in Australia, feel free to change it to en-us or en-uk etc as needed, I'm not sure it makes a difference for this.

Regarding wordpad not properly identifying text attributes like Italic, what version of Windows do you have again?  I've tried in the regular stable build of Windows 10 and in the latest fast insider build (15007) and NVDA (2016.4) identifies italic etc text in the middle of a line correctly.  EG if I type:

The quick brown fox

and italicise the word "brown", NVDA reads:

The quick italic brown no italic fox.

It does this in Wordpad, Word 2016, Jarte and LibreOffice.

Note that you need to have NVDA's document formatting set to report text attributes (for italic).  Press NVDA+control+d to get to that screen.  If you don't have that set, it won't identify the text as italic regardless of where it is.

The only place I've seen behaviour similar to what you mentioned (if the start of a line is italic thinking the whole line is, and not seeing it at all if it's in the middle of a line), is if part of a cell has different formatting in Excel.

Kind regards

Quentin.



On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

Thanks! As I said last night, when I tried to follow the link from the page it said "We are sorry, but the page could not be found" and gave me a ton of possible search options.


Really though, it doesn't matter what file format the document is when it comes to displaying. If I want to work in the file with Jarte, I have to save in rtf or .doc anyways. I just save a new copy in wordpad to the rtf format and then it reads it fine. I do miss announced page numbers and NVDA being nice about italics though. What I mean is, in Word Pad, if a word is italicised in the middle of a line, NVDA doesn't report it, and if it's at the beginning of a line, NVDA acts like the whole line is italicised even though it isn't. Same with bold, underline, and so on. Is there an addon that corrects this behaviour? Or will there be an improvement in NVDA in that regard? I know I'd be grateful     for it. Then Jarte would be just that bit less irritating.


On 16/01/2017 8:48 AM, Gene wrote:
You can download the installation file to allow you to work with docx files here:
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA

if you could please send the link to your dropbox, that would be very much appreciated. I also am considering using chart, but don't really want to pay the money for it partially because I don't have the money for it.

Noah Carver

> On Jan 15, 2017, at 15:16, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to caution users that use an microsoft product, ie office 2013 and up certainly it does this on 2016.
> Aparently the older software has some incompatibility when upgrading the os from one version to another.
> It tends to default extentions back to open xml viewer which itself is not helpfull.
> Worse excell refuses to be able to process file commands and can not start until you repair office.
> For the systems that had filter pack aand the compatibility pack installed, I solved this by removing both these packs then repairing office as on restart no files opened at all.
> Ever since then updates have worked as expected.
> If you are on a shared system with office.
> Every time you update the os especially when its a security update not a performance update, including newer and older office updates, you will need to repair office with the quick repair before using it again.
> I am not sure why that is but thats a way to get round it.
> If you often need a share then thats fine but if you don't it is easier to kill the extra converter packs.
> I should also want to add that I have old word xp converters for some older files that came from an xp machine that perminantly exist on my dropbox cloud, they are so small just like xp sound recorder its unlikely I will ever kill them so they stay till I die I guess.
> I have no inttention of killing them.
> The only thing you do need is sevenzip to decompress them but if someone wants to make an installer email me and I'll send the link for copywrite reasons jarte can't store those on its site but.
>
>
>> On 16/01/2017 12:20 a.m., Gene wrote:
>> It doesn't need the purchased  version.  You can install the Microsoft pack that gives Microsoft Word and some other programs the ability to read docx files.  if you try to open a Docx file, a dialog comes up telling you that.  It may provide a link in the dialog to the JARTE web page where the subject is discussed further.
>> We don't know how Word is being useed so we don't know if JARTE has all the features desired but you can read about it and install and look at the program to see if it does.
>>
>> Gene
>>
>>
>> From: Brian's Mail list account
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 4:38 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA
>>
>>
>> The thing about Jarte is that to open docx files it needs the purchased
>> version as far as I know. OOpen and Libra Office seem to be able to load in
>> docx files, but as has been discussed here of late, the authors need to do
>> some more work to allow screenreaders to work on all parts of them like read
>> all etc.
>>
>> Of course it might  be possible to find an old copy of an older version of
>> Office pro corporate which I did and it still worked aand accepted the key.
>> Legal?  Well, its a grey area isn't it. if the original buyer is giving it
>> away, then who cares.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 5:18 AM
>> Subject: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> My computer's keyboard's been acting up, and I have my Mum's as a
>>> backup, but it doesn't have Microsoft Office on it, and I was wondering
>>> if there was a decent free word processor out there, accessible with
>>> NVDA, that I could install on that computer instead. It would be nice if
>>> it could read and edit .docx files, but I'm aware I can't have everything.
>>>
>>>
>>> The most used features in Word for me are:
>>>
>>> The Spellchecker, including a whole dictionary of words I've added so
>>> Pokémon names, anime characters' names and names I just made up don't
>>> get flagged;
>>>
>>> The word-counter;
>>>
>>> Page-breaks;
>>>
>>> Headings (mostly for aesthetic reasons).
>>>
>>> If there's something out there that does all these things, and is free
>>> and accessible, I'll be pretty happy with it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 






--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

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