Re: accessible word processors with NVDA


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I have a feeling though that if you save as word 97, it always opens in Jarte.
Jarte I think is based on the xp version of Wordpad, so it seems to be unaware of some of the ways files are saved hence the gibberish.


Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA


Hi Sharni,

When you reply to a list message, it automatically goes to the list, but if
you reply all, you can grab the address of the sender, or read the header
information of the message I sent (depending on how you read your mail it
will often include it) but my address is quentin@... (Please
note, I'm just saying that for information, not attacking you for not
finding it - it's actually not obvious unless you know where to look!)


I just tried writing the line I mentioned earlier "the quick brown fox"
with brown italicised, in word 2016, saving it as doc and rtf and opening
in both Jarte and WordPad. Neither wanted to open the doc file at all
(Wordpad opened it all mangled - no actual text, and Jarte wanted that
converter I linked to but never downloaded myself). Opening the RTF file,
both Jarte and WordPad read it fine, either navigating by word / character,
or using say all or read line.

Definitely what I would say is that if you are constantly opening files
that were written in Microsoft Office, and the formatting etc is very
important, then you really are best off biting the bullet and buying Office
- no other program is guaranteed to open it properly. If you write and
save your own documents, then Jarte looks pretty good - as far as I notice,
the issues we've been talking about have all been from importing a document
from Word, is that correct? Writing text in Jarte and then saving and
reopening works fine?

Having said all that, I've been in situations at various times where I
didn't have access to Word but needed to open a Word document and programs
like Jarte and WordPad can do it almost always well enough to read and
likely even edit. It just depends on what you are doing, where you are
getting your files and what you need to do with them.

Regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 9:08 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward <
sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

Hi,


I've just made this file in Jarte itself, saved in .rtf. It behaves as I
described below. Since it's a test file specifically created to demonstrate
my issue, I have no problems sending it to the list at large. It's
perfectly safe, guys!

On 16/01/2017 8:58 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

Quentin,


I've noticed the opposite. I had Microsoft Word Starter 2010 on my
original computer when I first got it, and then Microsoft Office 2013 when
Mum bought me a license for one computer. NVDA always reads italics and
bold as expected, only on the words that formatting is affecting. In Word
Pad, saved into rtf for the purposes of reading and working with it in
JARTE, the same files the emphasis is clearly announced in have it blurred.
Single italicised words in the middle of lines are passed over, while words
at the beginning of the line dictate whether the whole line will be treated
as plain, italic or bold. When scrolling over it character by character, it
doesn't do this, but when I use say-all, it behaves as I described. It may
be something to do with Office messing things up even when the file's saved
as rtf, but I remember noticing this a long time ago when I thought writing
in word pad was my only means of writing. That resulted in me posting a
chapter of a fanfiction with a whole chunk of text in italics that I never
meant to be so.


I'd send a file, but your email doesn't seem to be tied to this message,
only the email address of the list, and all the relevant files are of
stories or parts of stories I have written. I'm quite protective of rough
drafts of things...

On 16/01/2017 4:50 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Sharni,

No I'm not using anything special. If you are re-using the same Word file
over and over or the same template, it's possible there's something hidden
in it that could be causing problems. To be honest, I've more seen that in
Office itself and opening a file in something other than office is more
likely to fix it, but you never know. If you have a file that's doing it,
that you are happy to send me offline, I can have a look and see if it
works on my computer.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward <
sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

Quentin, do you have any addons or something that might have changed how
NVDA reads Word Pad/Jarte files? I'd be super grateful. I'd have no problem
using Jarte if I could read my stories with the proper emphasis included.

On 16/01/2017 10:24 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Sharni,

Re using Jarte and the Office compatibility pack, try this link from
Microsoft directly: https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/details.
aspx?id=3

The en-au in the middle of that address is because I'm in Australia, feel
free to change it to en-us or en-uk etc as needed, I'm not sure it makes a
difference for this.

Regarding wordpad not properly identifying text attributes like Italic,
what version of Windows do you have again? I've tried in the regular
stable build of Windows 10 and in the latest fast insider build (15007) and
NVDA (2016.4) identifies italic etc text in the middle of a line
correctly. EG if I type:

The quick brown fox

and italicise the word "brown", NVDA reads:

The quick italic brown no italic fox.

It does this in Wordpad, Word 2016, Jarte and LibreOffice.

Note that you need to have NVDA's document formatting set to report text
attributes (for italic). Press NVDA+control+d to get to that screen. If
you don't have that set, it won't identify the text as italic regardless of
where it is.

The only place I've seen behaviour similar to what you mentioned (if the
start of a line is italic thinking the whole line is, and not seeing it at
all if it's in the middle of a line), is if part of a cell has different
formatting in Excel.

Kind regards

Quentin.



On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward <
sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

Thanks! As I said last night, when I tried to follow the link from the
page it said "We are sorry, but the page could not be found" and gave me a
ton of possible search options.


Really though, it doesn't matter what file format the document is when
it comes to displaying. If I want to work in the file with Jarte, I have to
save in rtf or .doc anyways. I just save a new copy in wordpad to the rtf
format and then it reads it fine. I do miss announced page numbers and NVDA
being nice about italics though. What I mean is, in Word Pad, if a word is
italicised in the middle of a line, NVDA doesn't report it, and if it's at
the beginning of a line, NVDA acts like the whole line is italicised even
though it isn't. Same with bold, underline, and so on. Is there an addon
that corrects this behaviour? Or will there be an improvement in NVDA in
that regard? I know I'd be grateful for it. Then Jarte would be just
that bit less irritating.

On 16/01/2017 8:48 AM, Gene wrote:

You can download the installation file to allow you to work with docx
files here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25812011/FileFormatConve
rters.exe?dl=1

Gene
----- Original Message -----

*From:* Noah Carver via Groups.Io <carvernoah309=yahoo.com@groups.io>
*Sent:* Sunday, January 15, 2017 3:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA

if you could please send the link to your dropbox, that would be very
much appreciated. I also am considering using chart, but don't really want
to pay the money for it partially because I don't have the money for it.

Noah Carver

On Jan 15, 2017, at 15:16, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:

I would like to caution users that use an microsoft product, ie office
2013 and up certainly it does this on 2016.
Aparently the older software has some incompatibility when upgrading
the os from one version to another.
It tends to default extentions back to open xml viewer which itself is
not helpfull.
Worse excell refuses to be able to process file commands and can not
start until you repair office.
For the systems that had filter pack aand the compatibility pack
installed, I solved this by removing both these packs then repairing office
as on restart no files opened at all.
Ever since then updates have worked as expected.
If you are on a shared system with office.
Every time you update the os especially when its a security update not
a performance update, including newer and older office updates, you will
need to repair office with the quick repair before using it again.
I am not sure why that is but thats a way to get round it.
If you often need a share then thats fine but if you don't it is
easier to kill the extra converter packs.
I should also want to add that I have old word xp converters for some
older files that came from an xp machine that perminantly exist on my
dropbox cloud, they are so small just like xp sound recorder its unlikely I
will ever kill them so they stay till I die I guess.
I have no inttention of killing them.
The only thing you do need is sevenzip to decompress them but if
someone wants to make an installer email me and I'll send the link for
copywrite reasons jarte can't store those on its site but.


On 16/01/2017 12:20 a.m., Gene wrote:
It doesn't need the purchased version. You can install the
Microsoft pack that gives Microsoft Word and some other programs the
ability to read docx files. if you try to open a Docx file, a dialog comes
up telling you that. It may provide a link in the dialog to the JARTE web
page where the subject is discussed further.
We don't know how Word is being useed so we don't know if JARTE has
all the features desired but you can read about it and install and look at
the program to see if it does.

Gene


From: Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 4:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA


The thing about Jarte is that to open docx files it needs the
purchased
version as far as I know. OOpen and Libra Office seem to be able to
load in
docx files, but as has been discussed here of late, the authors need
to do
some more work to allow screenreaders to work on all parts of them
like read
all etc.

Of course it might be possible to find an old copy of an older
version of
Office pro corporate which I did and it still worked aand accepted
the key.
Legal? Well, its a grey area isn't it. if the original buyer is
giving it
away, then who cares.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 5:18 AM
Subject: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA


Hi,


My computer's keyboard's been acting up, and I have my Mum's as a
backup, but it doesn't have Microsoft Office on it, and I was
wondering
if there was a decent free word processor out there, accessible with
NVDA, that I could install on that computer instead. It would be
nice if
it could read and edit .docx files, but I'm aware I can't have
everything.


The most used features in Word for me are:

The Spellchecker, including a whole dictionary of words I've added so
Pokémon names, anime characters' names and names I just made up don't
get flagged;

The word-counter;

Page-breaks;

Headings (mostly for aesthetic reasons).

If there's something out there that does all these things, and is
free
and accessible, I'll be pretty happy with it.












--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess






--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

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