Re: Very concerned, was: qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)


I'm glad you clarified the issue. 

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)

Hi Gene and others,

I did record an address that I shall post a link to shortly.


Perhaps I may have used a wrong word: when I talk about change of generation, what I really meant was the next group of enthusiasts. Sorry about the confusion.


As for concerns that I’ll be leaving this community: resignation doesn’t mean departure. I’ll still be around to answer questions, participating as a member and one of the code contributors to NVDA screen reader.


As for hashtag issue people were getting: all fixed. Sorry for the inconvenience.





From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)


I did not and I went out of my way to say, that I was not criticizing Michael lee for stepping down.  I criticized the reasons he gave and pointed out that that reason implies that younger members might be considered for the position while older people might not be because they are not and cannot be part of the generational shift.  If most people resigned from things because they were in their late twenties or early thirties, we would lose most of the experience and knowledge that comes with age.  If most of us resigned because we were worried about who would carry on if some mishap happened to us, then everyone would have to resign from everything because a mishap can happen to anyone.  That's why there are procedures that institutions have for filling a vacancy left by death or disability. 


I also said that I appreciate the work Michael Lee did in running the list. 


My main criticism was to the proposal to elect the next moderator. 


If Michael Lee wants to resign, that's his decision.  I did not criticize that decision. 



----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:40 AM

Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)


Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur with them.  If anything, I actually am with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on this one.  Joseph has done a magnificent job, and the fact that he was man enough to step up and say, I don't feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly took lots of courage!  I'm very proud of him for being so honest and so up front, yet being so respectful to all of us in how he did things.  To his credit, I think we all need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a break.  I really can tell in my heart that he truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest, contrary to what a lot of you all may think, or believe.


He's not burnt out.  I had a member yesterday who will be 100% left nameless, who called me at the phone number listed in my signature.


He or she kept asking me over and over again if I felt Joseph was burned out.  For the record, let me just say this.  I had planned today to talk to this person more if the questions continued, but honestly... look... he/she called me on my tech support line, and when I said I'm not here to play the middle man in this, go ask Joseph directly, go read his blog post which explains everything of his reasonings, they didn't apparently do so.  I have no issue talking to others, including this member both as a friend, and as a business related thing, but don't! put me as the middle man, off business hours or not.  That really put me in a very uncomfortable position yesterday. I felt put on the immediate spot, as I didn't want to say anything privately or publicly, and be taken as being rude, but I neither wanted to  hold back and not say how I felt about things.


I'm just a member of the list, and a fairly new one at that.  Just because I put my work phone number in my signature doesn't mean I did so, so that people could call me about list admin duties.  I'm not a mod, nor an admin, nor wish to be frankly.


My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out," quote unquote, then don't you think he probably wouldn't have been so willing to explain on his blog?  He posted that link for a reason, and that reason wasn't to have people just ignore it, then later wonder.  It's the whole shoot and kill now, ask questions later principle.  It shouldn't be that way.  Joseph gave you all a resource to look at, if you're wondering, so, for goodness sake, use it if you're wonderring.  I, shouldn't have to be the one to clear this up for everyone on the list.  It's not my responsibility, nor my problem.


Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about this statement, but I had to say something before this got more out of hand than it already has, and I beg the admins' pardon for having to say this publicly with my utmost of respect for them.

Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.


Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401.

----- Original Message -----

From: Kwork

Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32 PM

Subject: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)


Joseph, those are very good points on which to choose a new moderator. I think that another point is that they also need to be respected by the majority of the list members where they will serve, and that's where the on list voting will help. The more that vote on this type of topic, the greater the chance that cooler heads will prevail, and the transition will be a smooth one.

Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done with NVDA, and this list, over the past three years.


----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice #AdminNotice




If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the following requirements, then please put forth your name or that person’s name as the candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn’t about head moderator position, and our current head moderator is Nimer Jaber):


1.       Have used NVDA for the past three years or more.

2.       Have been a member of this forum and other NVDA forums for the past three years or more.

3.       Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a crisis such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and such.

4.       Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the face of adversity (especially during arbitration hearing proceedings).

5.       Willingness to seek advice from moderators and members of this forum when making list-wide decisions.

6.       Familiarity with Groups.IO administration controls.

7.       Ability to serve as a user-side advocate when talking to NV Access and other NVDA developers.

8.       Ability to deliver important news from NV Access such as NVDA release announcements in a timely manner.

9.       Willingness to step down from position of power when appropriate (recalled, on his or her own will and so on).

10.   Willingness to shower members of this list and the wider NVDA community with love and mercy, including to misbehaving members.

11.   Having the servant’s attitude (to serve, not to be served).

12.   Willingness to be accountable and answerable to members of this list and the public.

13.   Must be at least 21 years of age or older (or considered an adult in the country a candidate resides in).


Some of you may say, “look, these requirements are too hard.” I believe that, as a public face of this list (alongside other moderators and members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of this list, and in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself. Thus only applications from serious candidates will be accepted (applications will be accepted until early April, and election will be held by end of April so the new moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout May).


Thank you.



P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough is because of the following blog post:

Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies to associate moderators as well. Good luck.

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