Re: controlling the mouse?

David Moore

Hi Shaun,

I was not trying to show off at all. I am humble as they get, knowing that anytime I could be snuffed out it was not for the lord. That is not what I am saying at all. I just think that we should be altogether as human beeings instead of blindys, sightlings, and so on. Why can everybody just see each other as human beeings. I want to know about the sighted world, and the sighted world should want to know about the blind world. I have many blind friends who have the attitude that the sighted are the enany that is slowing them down. I don't see it that way at all. Sighted people forget that I am blind, because I do not go around shouting that I am blind, look at me, I am blind. I just talk to every human beeing the same way. I do not like labels at all for any people. I tell sighted people about how great it is to be blind all of the time, and I constantly have my sighted friends using my cane, learning some Braille, because they think it is fun. Every sighted person has told me that I am not bitter like so many other blind people are. There are blind people who are bitter toward the sighted, and that is not integrating. There are blind people who think they are so much better than a sighted person. We all need to talk about what we have in common instead of what is different about us all of the time. The sighted is not the enimy of the blind, like so many blind people think. I have had sighted people bend over backward to make something accessible for me. I am just saying that at work, for example, we need to say right click instead of applications to our boss, or they will not know what we are talking about. We, as blind people, need to speak some sighted lingo if we are going to make it in the work world. In my opinion, the majority wins. In my mind, because the world is dominately sighted, the blind need to try a lot harder to get along with the sighted than the other way around. This is where many different minorities disagree with me. We need to work so hard to get the majority to get along with us, because we are in the minority. That is not a popular way for minorities to think these days I sure know. That is what I think. The sighted owe us nothing. The sighted do not have to make things accessible for us if they do not want to. We need to do what we need by ourselves to make all things accessible. The sighted owe us nothing. I work night and day to fit into the majority, the sighted. I do not expect the sighted to fit in with me, because I am the minority. I hope that makes since to some people. The minority needs to work so hard to be included into the majority instead of the other way around. That is just reality.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10


From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 4:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?


Hay man, I actually am slightly offended about it.

We are blind not poor helpless retarded idiots much as some sightlings

may think of us.

I say this as politely as I can.

It is beneath me to show off.

We should be trying to intergrate.

I have an aunt that when seeing me doing things ie with my special tech,

oh he can use a screen reader for the blind good for him.

Its not that I have something to read the screen, but that I am first

and foremost a blind person using a computer.

Ie I have a cane, oh, the poor dumb helpless blind can walk!

I havn't as yet figured out golden curser, but the keyboard has a major

advantage over the sighted.

Who cares what they think anyway.

At any case we should be to every extent possible be trying to include

ourselves in making them make as much accessible.

If we show off to much they may stop and we will be in more trouble.

Most security software is just not fully accessible, its why I still use

msse for example.

I don't usually raise my voice but to me its a bit risky to show off.

We are blind! not dumb and retarded idiots.

We should never show off, showing off is what people do to hide

themselves, and to look cool and to hide the fact they suck.

I had a friend that used to do that and he was hard to get on with.

We need to be accepted as we are first and foremost.

If we showoff we are looking cheap, and that could get us treated different.

If I am getting this wrongly please say, this after all is only text.

By all means show but not show off or at least don't flaunt.

Even if its a good skill, I do do things and people are impressed, but

I don't brag it to the entire universe unless I know it will be excepted.

That does not include the entire net its just not a good thing to take.

Showing off could be a risky business.




On 3/02/2017 8:52 p.m., David Moore wrote:

> Hi all,

> There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,

> David Moore

> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

> From: Gene

> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM

> To:

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

> To:

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

> On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

> I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Gene

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

> On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

> In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

> Gene

> There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.

> If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point.

> I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Antony Stone

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think

> we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move

> the mouse pointer around.

> The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an

> object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.

> Antony.

> On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

>> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if

>> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of

>> pixels.




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