Re: problem reading mail


Ron Canazzi
 

Back stage view is definitely off.



On 2/17/2017 1:46 PM, Gene wrote:
When you just press tab, you end up in the last ribbon you were working with.  Which is why, when I instruct people, I tell them to use the proper letter so we always start in the same place.  If you say that alt h places you in a different part of the home tab, I don't know why.  There may be some sort of design problem with ribbons in certain versions of Microsoft Office.  But those are not inherent faults in ribbons.  When I use ribbons in Wordpad or Windows Live Mail or Microsoft Word Starter, I always start in exactly the same place when I use alt h.  What I'm saying is that it sounds as though you are blaming ribbons for something that is actually bad design in this or that program.  And also, I don't know if back stage view has anything to do with this,  Is back stage view on or off?
 
gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem reading mail

OK, here goes with examples.


I am told to press alt + H for the home tab.  When I land on it, sometimes I land on a different tab than the clipboard tab.  It can be anywhere other than that or back on clipboard tab.


When I press the alt key by itself, sometimes I wind up on the home tab and sometimes on the file tab.

That's just for starters.  It gets weirder when I get into the tabs in Excel. Sometimes items I want to choose in the insert tab aren't there or don't operate properly.

The shortcuts provided by people from other lists usually work, but even those sometimes delay and lock up speech.


I am using Windows Explorer and Excel for examples and NVDA and JAWS for screen readers.




On 2/17/2017 10:05 AM, Gene wrote:
At this point, I am extremely skeptical.  It is irrational behavior and I strongly suspect there is some other explanation for what people are reporting. 
 
When I go through ribbons, combinations of keys are announced to get to the item or take an action such as short cuts in a menu.  They always work just as they always work in menus.  If something sounds completely illogical, considerable skepticism is in order. 
 
I've used ribbons in Word 10 starter, Windows Live Mail and wordpad.  I have never observed such behavior and I've never seen this allegation regarding inconsistency on the three lists I follow dealing with Windows one way or another. 
 
If someone can furnish definite examples and if those examples are replicable by others, I'll consider such evidence.  otherwise, the sheer irrationality of the proposal causes me to be extremely skeptical. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem reading mail

In many programs, the items simply do not stay in the exact same position as they would in traditional pull down menus.  This is what I have not only experienced myself, but have been told by those more expert than me who teach the stuff. That's why the short cuts for predesignated functions are the only sure way to keep tactical control over what you're doing with ribbons in complex programs.



On 2/16/2017 1:31 PM, Gene wrote:
I've repeatedly sent instructions on using ribbons to the list.  And I don't say that ribbons are easy to use because that is a blanket generalization that may not apply to everyone.  I do believe that for the majority or most users, if ribbons are properly taught, they will not be difficult to use. 
 
I can send my discussion about how to use ribbons again, if desired.  The essence of working with ribbons is that you open the ribbon bar with alt.  You left or right arrow to the ribbon you want to use as you do when moving to a menu.  Then instead of up or down arrowing, you tab or shift tab.
 
There is more to learn than that but that is the essence of understanding the organization of ribbons in the most simple introductory framework. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem reading mail

...and while I respect Gene for most issues, when ever he has said in
the past that ribbons are easy once you get used to them, and I ask
about just how to use them in Excel--he or any of the other 'get on the
ball blinky' advocates of ribbons have no clue as to how to answer me. 
I have some basic shortcuts I have been given by those forced to use the
newer Excel and Access version, but that's about it.  None who use
ribbons for complex suite such as Office do anything other than memorize
shortcuts to achieve basic functions.  Fortunately some of the older
ones such as Control + S for save and alt + F, A for save as still work,
but having real command of ribbons in complex programs still alludes
most blind people.



On 2/16/2017 11:17 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
> Well I'm not rising to your bait. I meerely present what is not an
> uncommon view amongst blind users of windows.
>
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] problem reading mail
>
>
> What do you mean the only useable one.  You mean the only one you
> liked because you hate ribbons.  That is different than the only
> useable one.  The later version is perfectly useable.  If you are
> willing to use ribbons, it is just as useable as the old version.
>
> Microsoft doesn't provide the installer for the old version any longer
> but the full installer for the old version is available from
> individuals who have it.  I have it and I expect other list members
> have it as well.
>
> Outlook Express in the version that has been modified to work in
> Windows 7 and higher works well for some people and not for others.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> Gene----- Original Message -----
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brian's Mail list account
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 4:29 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] problem reading mail
>
>
> I think it happens on Windows Live mail but there are a number of
> different
> versions knocking around. To me the only usable one was the version using
> old style menus, which microsoft now seems to have removed as a
> download and
> the version is always asking to update or to go over tto the latest
> app. I
> don't think the app in 10 has support for Usenet so I'm loathe to do that
> change, and in any case Outlook express with the files that emulate
> the old
> html etc displays of xp seems to owork well and I do not begrudge the
> 20 Eu
> it costs for three keys at all as the guy is very helpful.
> This will do me for years unless nobody does pop3 email any more.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
> <quentin@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 10:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] problem reading mail
>
>
>> Hi Gary,
>>
>> I must admit I haven't been using the mail app much.  I just had a look
>> and
>> found a couple of times it opened the message and I had to press
>> NVDA+down
>> arrow to read, but most time (even on the same messages), it read fine.
>>
>> Would love to get some more info if anyone else is experiencing this (or
>> not) and particularly if anyone can better pin down exactly when it does
>> and doesn't read automatically?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Quentin.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 6:13 AM, Gary Metzler <gmtravel@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I just updated to nvda 2017.rc1.  I am using wlm as my mail client.  It
>>> used to be when I open a message I would hit the up arrow key and nvda
>>> would start reading the message.  Now, I have to hit the key for it to
>>> read
>>> the message.  Also I hear the word pane is this the way it will be?
>>> Thanks
>>> for any help.Regards, Gary kn4ox
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Quentin Christensen
>> Training Material Developer
>> Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
>> available:
>> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>
>> Ph +61 7 3149 3306
>> www.nvaccess.org
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
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--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

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