Re: Adobe in Design


Gene
 

This may be my last message in the thread.  I may have said all I have to say on the subject and I don't want to be repetitious.  However, this discussion may be more than academic for reasons I will make clear later in this message.  Others may wish to comment on whether they have had difficulties by not learning ribbons as I suggest may be the case for some or perhaps many people.
 
I also want to make it clear that I am not trying to convince anyone to like ribbons.  Nor am I trying to convince anyone that either menus or ribbons are superior.  I'm saying that if you use ribbons, either by choice or necessity, if you think about them differently, you may find them easier, perhaps much easier, to use.  Different people have harder or easier times picturing or understanding the layout of different structures.  Someone may find it easier to understand the layout of menus and more difficult to understand that of ribbons.  I'm not assuming or saying that they can't understand the structure.  While it's a good idea to try to understand the structure of ribbons, simply remembering the rote rule that you tab and shift tab through a ribbon instead of up and down arrowing, may make them much easier to work with if you try but find understanding the structure difficult.  And I'm also saying that different organization doesn't mean they are better or worse.  It may be a matter of getting used to the other way or to learn how to use ribbons without worrying so much about organization if you have difficulty understanding the categories or groups organization.  That's one reason I discussed use of short cut sequences or, as they are properly called in ribbons, key tips. 
 
I'm also trying to discourage dismissing ribbons just because they are different and, perhaps, because you've heard and read so many disparaging comments about them.  An important reason so many people disparage ribbons may be because they weren't properly instructed in their use.  No matter how many people believe something, that doesn't mean they are right.  A lot of the beliefs or attitudes you see regarding this subject may well arise from improper or inadequate instruction. 
 
And if you resist ribbons, you may find at some point that it comes back to bite you.  I don't know this.  I haven't discussed this with people but I suspect that some people who refuse to give ribbons a fair try, end up in jobs or potential employment situations where this becomes a problem.  In short, I'm saying to seek out good learning sources, don't form preconclusions, and try ribbons without immediately trying to get around them by using programs that eliminate them. 
 
If you are convinced that you will never benefit from ribbons, then you may be able to avoid them without negative consequences.  But here again, do those using Windows 10 loose access to items they would benefit from by using software that removes ribbons?  How about those using such software in Microsoft Office?  I don't know.  I haven't used such utilities.  I'm simply saying that the almost reflexive avoidance of ribbons may come back to bite you unless you really know these things when making a decision. 
 
I don't consider this just an academic discussion.  It may have real implications for some or many people.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 5:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Adobe in Design

To correct an error, I referred in the below message to the paste group.  I should have referred to the clipboard group or category.  there is no paste group.  Copy and paste related commands are found in the clipboard group.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 4:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Adobe in Design

All that has to be known is that you tab and shift tab instead of left and right arrowing.  As for categories, in ribbons versus organization in menus, why, in many programs, is the options dialog found in the tools menu?  Why in others is it or something similar found in the edit menu?  If you can't find something by moving through just categories, you go through the entire ribbon.  And I just thought of another illogical and arbitrary use of placement in menus.  Why is update often located in the help menu?  Why isn't it in the tools menu?  I have never seen.  My guess is that ribbons have the items extend from left to right and that tabbing and shift tabbing moves me across a ribbon.  But even if I had no picture at all of the layout, all I would have to know is one very simple rule.  Tab through a ribbon to move forward.  Shift tab to move backward.  It's nice to have an idea of the layout but hardly necessary. 
 
Different people use ribbons in different ways.  I don't pay much attention to categories.  I look through entire ribbons when familiarizing myself with a new program.  I look through all menus when familiarizing myself with an unfamiliar menu program.  I'm not particularly interested in categories in a ribbon such as paste group.  It's useful to keep some of these in mind but not necessary.  I'm interested in the actual items and the short cut key sequences for those I intend to use regularly. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Adobe in Design

I think the point people are making is that somehow the concept needs to be
gotten to the blind person who by default tends to see the world as up and
down a page.
 If you have had sight in the past then you have a head start of course.
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "MAYANK SHARMA" <mayanks2010@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Adobe in Design


> Hi.
>
> It's not so much as a requirement for the college, but It's really
> handy to know the skill for designing when I go into the media
> industry That's smething something an employer would look for to put
> it in another way. If I can achieve the same with another software,
> that would work too. The purpose is to be able to design newspaper
> layouts.
> But it is true that this is a graphical software to be using.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mayank
>
>
> On 2/16/17, Richard Kuzma via Groups.Io <rmkuzma@...> wrote:
>> Ok, then,
>> Is the instructor and college or agency willing to give you a reasonable
>> accomadation since you are blind?
>> Might just want to put that out there in a nice way to see what happens.
>> Maybe they will make an exception for you.
>> If not, maybe I can load indesign here and see what I can figure out.
>> I am so behind on their version and so on, so you might have to refresh
>> my
>> memory.
>> Or, better yet,
>> If you have it on your system, maybe we coult to a nvda remote and try it
>> out.
>> Let me know if I can hep any way.
>> Rich
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik
>> burggraaf
>> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 7:41 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Adobe in Design
>>
>> As I understand it this is a classroom situation.  The students have to
>> use
>>
>> what the professor tells them they have to use.
>>
>> Adobe in general is not a friend of accessibility, no matter how much
>> they
>> sponsor NVDA.  I haven't used these two applications and don't know what
>> work has been done, but it could really go either way.  Hopefully some
>> one
>> comes up with good information.
>>
>> Erik
>>
>> Sent with AquaMail for Android
>> http://www.aqua-mail.com
>>
>>
>> On February 16, 2017 7:28:50 AM "Richard Kuzma via Groups.Io"
>> <rmkuzma@...> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi there,
>>> I used to do graphic design before I lost my sight and used both
>>> indesign
>>>
>>> and quark.
>>> They are both very graphical user interfaces.
>>> I cant say that I have played with them and nvda,
>>> But I cant imagin it very easy.
>>> Why not use something like Microsoft word, or a word processor instead
>> that
>>> is not near as graphical.
>>> Let me know if I can help any other way.
>>> Rich
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>> MAYANK
>>
>>> SHARMA
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 4:48 AM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: [nvda] Adobe in Design
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I'm doing a journalism course and am encouraged to learn to work with
>>> adobe in design. Has anyone tried working on it with NVDA and if it is
>>> possible to do so?
>>> It is used to design layouts for newspapers. Also there's quarkXPress
>>> that we use for designing.
>>> Do tell me if it's not appropriate for this list.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Mayank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>



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