Re: Can I still get it for free

erik burggraaf <erik@...>

A couple of things strike me about this.

First, a laptop from 2009 that has been under regular use should not perform well in 2016, even if it was a high end name brand system.  They just don't live as long as people.  Windows ten on what you are describing to me as a warn out system might rejuvinate the system, or it may have just the opposit effect as you discovered.

The other thing that strikes me is that operating system upgrades are a bit notorious.  I have upgraded several more modern systems to windows 10 and haven't seen any performance breaks, but remember the hassle of yure installing upgrades of 98 to ME, or 2000 to XP.  I've even experienced glitches upgrading my android devices that were serious showstopper issues which went away after a clean install.  It could be you were inadvertantly bitten by the upgrade bug.



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On March 8, 2017 10:44:29 AM "Jacques" <lists4js@...> wrote:

Erik, you make valid points, none of which I have any problem with. Keep in mind though that the person who originally posted this question said that its an old laptop, which should be considered when deciding on a final verdict. One of my older machines here is a laptop dating back to 2009. Although quite a nice machine, it slowed down to a crawl after updating it to Win10, despite my best efforts to find the most appropriate drivers. I guess it was one of those boarder line situations, where the MS hardware validator gave it the green light, but for a power user it turned out to be shere frustration trying to use the machine after the upgrade. So yes, if the hardware leans itself towards 10, go for it, if it doesnt, stick to 7 for now and start saving for a new system, as to take advantage of the benefits of Windows 10.



From: [] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Wednesday, 08 March 2017 17:04
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free


Gene,  Here is my reasonable take on this based on my more than 15 years of in depth experience not only of windows, but also other major operating systems.

First, windows is a terrible product in any itteration.  There isn't a single thing windows does better than other operating systems except for arketecture support.  It's the most expensive operating system to implement if you remove hardware from the equation.  Windows supports cheeper hardware than the competition but that doesn't negate the fact that windows itself is the highest priced operating system on the market.  Windows is also more expensive to maintain.  In fact, an upgrade from windows seven to windows 10 takes about two hours time.  If you have to fully patch windows seven sp1 it takes between 3 and 6 hours depending on connection speed.  If you're paying by the hour, which would you choose?

Windows is the least secure of all the major OS, further compounding the astronomical maintanence cost and driving down productivity.  I have not yet had to hack windows 10, but I have windows seven.  In windows seven it is common place for programs to allow themselves transparently through built in firewalling.  It is also common place for programs to run as administrator without requiring the administrator account to be enabled or requiring an administrator password.  It is possible for programs to sircomvent the notification system that works on the front line, and it's even possible and considered advisable by many people to turn the security notifications off altogether.  In fact, it is possible when sitting at the keyboard of a windows seven workstation to gain administrator access without logging in at all, to add, remove, or rename windows system files, to take command line control of a workstation, and to perform any command line function including enabling or disabling the administrator account and changing account credentials, all without logging in.  Litterally any improvement would be better than the attrocity that is windows seven security.

Microsoft interface design is terrible.  Ribbons and tiles are only two examples of design choices meant to set windows apart from competetors but had the effect of alienating users.  Windows 10 does the smart thing and returns the windows interface to a more desktop feel. 

Windows only gets a refresh every three years or so.  That means a lot happens in the computer world between releases.  Because the releases are alternately pretty decent over all come terrible to the point of uselessness, windows appeals to pundets who don't like change and want to hault progress.  Fine, but windows seven is coming up on 8 years old and we are still talking about support for windows xp being discontinued.  Nowhere else in the world of operating systems are we talking about support for 8 year old software, and 17 year old software isn't even available for download on pirate sites.  Computers that shipped with windows 7 at the time of the release of windows 8 are now end of lifed, and yet, I was still able to buy and install a windows seven a month ago.  The cost to developers of supporting four operating systems spanning 11 years: ten, eight, seven and vista, is astronomical, and you lucky end-user, get to pay the bill.  The cost of windows software over all is significantly higher than on any other operating system, and part of the reason is that windows users live in the past more than any other userbase.

Windows ten continues to be a free upgrade for current users of seven and eight, long after it was supposed to switch to a completely paid product.  The minimum and recommended hardware configurations are similar to those of windows seven.  Upgrading usually brings better plug and play hardware support and other items under the hood that users would miss if they were gone.

There are features I like in windows ten such as it's minimalist email app and it's improved tts voices.  Then there are things I'm not too pleased with such as the loss of control over windows update and the increased relience on ribbons.  True, we don't really have enough information about this particular case to make a recommendation one way or the other, but in general, it is more than time to leave windows seven behind unlesss you have some substantial reason not to, such as loss of support for a crutial piece of hardware.

All upgrades on all systems require a bit of retraining for new features or fernature that moves, but that is part and parcel of computing.  Windows ten is market tested, reliable and functional at this point.  Staying with windows seven just because is fine for now if that's your personal choice, but if you're supporting or recommending on a pro or semipro basis, the recommendation has to be to upgrade at this point unless circomstances dictate otherwise.



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On March 8, 2017 8:39:42 AM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

You have made a statement and not given any reasons supporting it.  That doesn't tell us anything except that you believe something.  People may have reasons to upgrade from Windows 7 and Microsoft has recently claimed that for security reasons, you should upgrade because Windows 7 is not secure enough anymore because it isn't a new enough operating system to incorporate newer security features.  I haven't seen any independent discussion concerning this.  But there are always problems that may occur when updating and in this case, the point was stated that this is an old computer.  You don't just upgrade.  While many upgrades from Windows 7 go well, you can't assume they will.  I don't think it’s a good idea to urge upgrading as a general practice.  Why is an upgrade being considered?  What features, if any, will be used or are desired by upgrading?  Has the computer been tested for compatibility of the upgrade?



----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 7:21 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free


that is an extremely bad suggesstion. If you don't have a very good reason to not update, it is generally a good idea to update.


On 3/8/2017 4:04 PM, Gene wrote:

Is there a specific reason you want to use Windows 10?  You can upgrade for free but I don't know the procedure.  others, I expect, will advise you.  You say it's an old laptop.  There is a Microsoft site you can use to have your computer evaluated to see if it is able to be upgraded.  But unless there is a specific feature you want, I would advise leaving well enough alone. 



----- Original Message -----

From: Sakina

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 6:53 AM

Subject: [nvda] Can I still get it for free


Hello gene and Friends,


I have got this passed down old laptop from a friend that has got window 7

Please forgive me for my terminology below

I wish to update or is called upgrade to window 10

Is it possible and can I still get the window 10 for free?

If yes, than please how do I go about.

I will be and always am grateful for your help and guidance.

Thanking you all again.

With best wishes





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