Take it with a grane of salt, Gene is vary direct and knows a lot about nvda. I remember I got jumped all over about clearification on the chrome and google chrome browsers, people were calling google chrome chrome and it is not chrome and google chrome are two different browsers.
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On 3/29/2017 7:40 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
Never mind then.
I thought I was helping, but obviously I only caused more confusion and trouble. What else is new. And before Gene nor you say anything to me, and please don't in this regard at least, I'm not taking your criticism personally though it probably seems that way, so don't even go there.
I really genuinely thought I was helping.
Maybe I should just go back to school to learn how to be an A T instructor, as most people never agree with half the things I suggest. It's obvious I must not know how to teach, even though I try; I'll try not to let it ever happen again.
Anyway, sorry for further complicating things like I usually do.
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>
*To:* firstname.lastname@example.org <mailto:email@example.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 29, 2017 12:44 PM
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] A suggestion when helping people on the list.
Now I'll be the contrarian and be so having followed the
suggestion Christopher is making at times and ignoring it others.
I'll expand this to both NVDA and JAWS, as the concept applies
equally to both.
Many new users have no idea of what the NVDA Key or JAWS Key is.
I know I certainly didn't and ended up having to ask when I first
started hearing those terms used for "the appropriate modifier
key" based on user settings.
Default settings on NVDA and JAWS are both to use desktop keyboard
layout (unless there's some way they can detect a non-numberpad
keyboard on a given laptop, and I've never tried installing on one
to test that out and they're hard to find these days). That means
that in the vast majority of cases Insert will be the NVDA or JAWS
Those who switch to laptop keyboard layout are already a more
sophisticated user than most beginning users are and can instantly
translate "Insert+" to "CapsLock+" when they see it.
The only time I personally "get picky" about this is the odd
situation where what follows the "NVDA Key+" or "JAWS Key+"
happens to be different depending on whether one happens to be
using a desktop versus a laptop keyboard layout.
The ability to understand that someone saying "NVDA Key+" or
"JAWS Key+" means either Insert or CapsLock depends directly on
pretty much having asked what's meant by "NVDA Key" or "JAWS Key."
A basic skill when talking about screen reader commands, for any
user, is the ability to mentally translate one expressed in
desktop layout terms to laptop layout terms when necessary, and
To me it's not that much different than requiring that someone who
uses a screen reader be able to translate the common directions
"click," "right click," and other mouse related commands that are
given again and again and again in instructions not directly aimed
at screen reader users into the necessary keystrokes for the
screen reader and the keyboard on the machine they are personally
I didn't find the use of "NVDA Key" or "JAWS Key" at all useful
when I was in my earliest days of working with screen readers and
I suspect that many, if not most, neophytes won't, either. You'd
end up asking, "What is the NVDA Key?," which starts the whole
explanation circle and basic education process.
*//**/The real art of conversation is not only to say the right
thing/**/ in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing
at the/**/ tempting moment./*
*/ ~ Dorothy Nevill/*