Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...


Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Robin,

I have to say that I agree with you totally!

I am using Windows 10 with NVDA 2017.2, the Eloquence voice and I have absolutely no problems communicating with each of the apps that interest me! I function totally non-visually and rely on NVDA to analyse and communicate what is on the screen. Occasionally I reach into JAWS 17 to see something that I doubt NVDA is telling me correctly. Invariably, I find that JAWS can see less than NVDA can. I know this cannot be universally true but it is true for the range of apps that I am involved with. That is, Microsoft Office 2016, Mozilla Firefox, Ms Outlook 2016 particularly, and a few more.

I am proud of NVDA! I think that some powerful people are involved in developing this tool and have shown how those who experience the non-visual mode of working are best equipped to address it and deliver efficient communicative tools to manage the interface that the screen presents.




All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


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-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robin Frost
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 7:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Hi,
Messages like the one below always cause me great concern when I encounter them on lists such as this.
For the record I'd like to say the following in the interest of balance. I like many others had my baptism by fire as it were emersion into Windows necessitated by the death of my Windows 7 machine. And I would like to proclaim that my experience while involving a slight learning curve as moving to a new operating system version often does was relatively painless and seamless. I took it upon myself to learn as much as I could about any significant changes and I also composed a list of keystrokes that might have changed and anything I might want to change for optimal screen reader usage in the new environment to make my transition as easy as possible. the latter was minimal in the case of Windows 10.
It is one thing to state something as an opinion such as I feel that or it's been my experience that Windows 10 is unreliable; but to make a blanket statement that it is so as though it is fact for all is at the very least misleading and at its worst is blatantly erroneous.
I've been using Windows 10 for 18 or so months now and over all I've found it to be quite stable in terms of performance.

I mean no disrespect and hope I've offended no one especially the moderators by that which I've said. I just hate to think of someone holding back from updating a current machine, purchasing a new machine or feeling like they must completely abandon an operating system solely on the basis of opinions as opposed to facts. If someone chooses to make a purchase based on that which works best for them that's one thing I'd just hate for such to be fueled by that which promotes fear as opposed to fostering enlightenment or learning something new.
Respectfully,
Robin


-----Original Message-----
From: Pascal Lambert
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 9:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

I echo the same sentiment as Brian. The Win10 anniversary already caused me to buy another laptop I did not need as I was leaving on an overseas trip and my laptop was totally messed up after the update. I am honestly about to switch to a Mac as the Win environment is not reliable.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Austin Pinto
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

oh! when you said explode i thought it would sound much worced but.
its a nice directive

On 6/19/17, Brian's Mail list account <bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Joseph, though I do understand where you are coming from and the
frustration

you feel, I do honestly have sympathy with the end user who just wants
a reliable system.
Microsoft have to shoulder a good deal of the blame for what their
changes cause. I'm not suggesting in any way that they are
deliberately screwing things up here, just that they really do not
test stuff enough. For people

who do not use special builds of windows, ie insiders, or nvda. I do
not think it unreasonable to expect continuity and after a while
people do get fed up with having the rug pulled from under them on a
regular basis by software makers, be that Microsoft or anyone else.
So yes, in a development environment you would be justified in being
annoyed, but when people are trying to run their lives day to day and
keep encountering stones in the road and potholes not of their own
making it is,

I think understandable if people get fed up and take the easy option.
I have I know said much of this before, but like most of us, I have
had to

try to help people in real life away from this place and been almost
embarrassed when you eventually track down the issue to the actual
changes in the software and nothing to do with the end user, except
that he or she happens to be blind.

I'll shut up now and be quiet, bite my lip etc for a while. I nearly
bought

a new laptop last week but after reading about all the win 10 issues
decided

not to bother.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:22 AM
Subject: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a
reason

why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...


Dear NVDA community,



Disclaimer: for new community members, I'm normally not like this,
but I do sometimes right posts I believe folks should hear, as it
impacts community experience and what not. So my sincere apologies
for letting you witness my explosive side. Please bear with me for a
second, as it is important that

I
talk about the following regarding respecting engineers and announce
a directive for Windows 10 users:



In the blindness community (at least for members of various mailing
lists that I'm a part of or lead), I became synonymous with someone
who is willing to show patience until the end, especially when
resolving tech support problems. But there is a hidden side to that:
for certain things, I become

a
volcano, and those who've witnessed my lava flow knows what I mean.
Unfortunately, I believe it is time that I explode yet again (my
apologies to our dear leaders for doing something like this):



Answering questions: for many situations, when resolving issues, when
I and other engineers ask you questions in hopes of getting to the
meat of the burger. Sometimes we may ask you to tell us steps to
reproduce the given problem, what a screen reader says, and what not.
When developers ask you questions, please do your best to answer them
if possible.



For Windows 10 users: there is an important reason why I wrote
Windows 10 App Essentials: to prevent issues like the one Rosemarie
and others have experienced with Mail app. Hence the following directive:



Until now, it was optional for you to use Windows 10 app Essentials
add-on if you are using Windows 10. I'll make this an important
requirement starting from fall 2017. That is, starting from September
2017, when you report issues like the one Rosemarie has experienced,
I'll no longer ask you to install latest WinTenApps add-on: I'll
assume that you have. For Windows Insiders, this is a critical (and
mandatory) requirement.



I'm not announcing this directive just because I feel like doing it,
nor to increase popularity of my brainchild: Windows 10 App
Essentials add-on exists for important reasons:



* Workarounds for issues encountered by NVDA users when using Windows
10, including various UI Automation issues.
* Respond to changes in accessibility of various apps such as
removing workarounds put in place in past versions.
* Respond to app executable name changes (Microsoft has changed names
of at least three universal app executables).
* Provide essential features for Windows 10 users, including
suggestions announcement, emoji panel support (Fall Creators Update),
Edge notification announcements and others.
* To prove to Microsoft and third-party universal app developers that
accessibility should be a core design criteria for apps, including
letting screen reader users use apps to their full potential.



Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph





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