Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

erik burggraaf <erik@...>

Narrator isn't able to compete with any other solution for windows or any other operating system for that matter. It's getting better, and I think it will have to become definitive eventually in order to support the new paradigm. I guess I am a bit predjudiced against it because it's been ineffective for so long, but really, that's the fault of the blind community at large and the AT companies. As I understand it, Microsoft received huge pushback against narrator when it was in design in the late 90's and early 2000's.

Windows magnifier is a very effective product, and the keyboard accessibility options work very well also.

Who knows where new paradigm accessibility would be now if we had been less selfish and more visionary twenty years ago.

It sure is a different world now.



On November 12, 2017 10:55:33 AM "Steve Nutt" <steve@...> wrote:

Hang on a sec. Isn't Narrator some form of accessibility? You can now
install Windows from a DVD with Narrator running.

So you can't say Windows doesn't come with accessibility, not now anyway.

All the best


-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of erik
Sent: 11 November 2017 18:28
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Mike, I live in Ontario. I am not a lawyer, or a legislature, however, I
think I'm pretty familiar with the accessibility legislation we have here.
There is nothing as far as I know in the accessibility legislation that says
that accommodations need to be insured. I could be wrong. Feel free to
correct me.

Dolphin maybe trying to move itself in, but right now, we are looking at an
accessibility situation here that involves Freedom Scientific Jaws for
Windows, and non-visual desktop access nvda. The people who own and develop
Jaws are motivated by money. As soon as Jaws stops being a financially
viable product, it will cease to be developed and produced. At that point,
the government will not be able to purchase it, because it won't be
available for sale. Government offices will probably be the final holdouts
in the great switch, but at some point technology will force them to do the
right thing, even if they manage to hold out against employee and user
Although government is ridiculously slow to change, governments were the
first early adopters of the mobile platforms in the late 90s and early 2000.
Mobile technologies and their accessibility Solutions are the way of the
future. Because of what first Apple, and then Google have done, governments
are already issuing devices to their employees with disabilities where
accessibility already comes standard. In fact, Windows is currently the only
platform where accessibility does not come standard.
At some point, accessible procurement may be a factor in governments finally
switching either to a different desktop platform, or two entire mobile
platforms. Of course, they will resist this change, but there are two
inexorable factors. First, user demand. Accommodation legislation is usually
worded in such a way that if a user asks for a specific accommodation, that
has to be taken into consideration. Second, you can't buy something that
isn't on the market. As demand for Windows decreases, so too will the demand
for Jaws for Windows, and as I said, they will not continue to produce
something they can't sell. Come talk to me in another 3 or 4 years.

On November 11, 2017 1:08:23 PM "Mike and Jenna" <schwaltze@...>

Lol You better have a long talk with the top guys at the government as they
do not follow your logic. They want software that comes from insured
companys and other things like that nvda could never afford to be insured
like that here in Canada or the use. There is many reasons that nvda will
not be part of the government unless somethings changes and money is raised
to get them insured over here. Also that still wouldn't work as they need to
be insured every year. There is nothing that holds nvda labial if something
goes wrong like there is with freedom.

-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of erik
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Steve, anyone can alter the code of an open source project, true. a what
I fail to understand is, how is this an inherent ecurity concern? The
altered code must be installed in order to do what you author it to do. You
can blow up the code five ways from Sunday, but if you are installing
official builds, no one will ever see your damaged code. In theory, I
suppose someone could hack the update server, place a damaged update into
the update queue, and roll it out to other computers. I have to say though,
I think that's a very very miniscule risk.

Administrators of public computer systems generally lock things down, so
that users cannot get access to the program files folder, the windows
folder, and other critical system functions. Users can not simply walk up
and install anything they want, regardless of whether it is open source or
not. If your systems are secure, and the Distribution Systems for the
software are secure, and the policies you operate under are secure, then
regardless of whether the software is open source or not, the entire
procedure should be secure.

If you are a foolish administrator, allowing users to install things
willy-nilly on public computers, then there is a very high risk of that
someone will go to, and download a bunch of crap to the
computer. I would consider this a much greater risk, then securely
installing open source software to provide accessibility.

Unless I am greatly missing something, I submit that installing code from an
unknown source is a security risk, but the innate ability to modify code is

On November 10, 2017 10:42:26 AM "Steve Nutt" <steve@...> wrote:


I would have thought the security aspect is obvious. Since it is open
source, anyone has access to the code, and anyone can alter it. So I can
understand workplace concerns.

All the best


-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of Bhavya
Sent: 09 November 2017 06:02
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of
the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this
assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has
the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to
substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security
vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above
questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss
such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could
give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.

Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
@BhavyaShah125 or Mobile Number: +91

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