To be honest for once I am probably on the side of fs which isn't usual.
Firstly if you use windows media player native formats and don't use a real high quality format the digital noise stream is encoded in the file to, and you hear it.
A lot of radio stations that were in windows media and even low quality real media had this issue, always sounded like an old radio in a shed with all the digital chatter.
The other thing is that a lot of tutorials especially the first manuals that came online especially if they were the same, for ages and ages were simply transposed from tapes.
Now I know now you can get reasonable recording restoration software but tapes to get your data off especially in those days even if they were good quality tapes would get a lot of hiss and machine noise.
You can fix this some what, but if you try to restore a record and yes I hav tried to cleanup a record with goldwave and really made it where I really made it sound normal all I got was the same digital signal clutter unless in stereo then it wasn't so bad.
Another thing, a lot of tapes were mono, and a lot of the tutorials these days are stereo.
And while a mono sound while a bit crappy in itself is just that, if you don't care the signal never was a real issue.
Make that stereo or even think of converting then you have a problem.
While you can probably split a digital mono signal to stereo, if that was a mono device like a tape to digital, with all the stuff I mentioned about tapes previously, well tapes are just not ideal to record off of unless they are stereo tapes or you just don't care.
I did recordings of tapes not from tape to computer, but actually played the tapes and taped to a digital device via a microphone.
Now I realise that this is or can be a problem if the environment aint right but its probably better if you can do it, Since you are dealing with a digital file hearing the audio from a tape.
And the environment sadly but oh well.
You can't exactly use that for production as such but you could edit a file and do that.
But I was dealing with stereo tape recordings on good tapes and dictaphones.
Its actually worse when you go digital to tape, fine for music but still.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 22/11/2017 9:34 a.m., JM Casey wrote: Hi.
Not checked out too many tutorials but I thought I could weigh in.
Yes, wordpad will handle rtfs just fine. But I have to ask: isn't html all-round the best format for these sorts of things? You can't put links in a text file, and html is pretty much cross-platform, so as long as someone has some sort of browser or viewer, they should not only be able to read the file, but effectively use a table of contents as well.
I don't have much of an opinion on audio. I know a lot of people like them but personally I would much rather just read something. But yes, I'd think a well-recorded file, converted to mp3, would be best for most people. You could keep the bit-rate down pretty low so long as the actual recording was of a decent quality (minimum ambient noise, etc). Even the rather expensive training materials from Freedom Scientific, when I reviewed them for my old work, were full of artifacts and crap that made them irritating to listen to. I know some people could do better, but, again, I highly prefer a simple html document containing text.
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 21, 2017 3:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A few comments on recent threads
Well for the central location all tutorials unless spacifically meant for outside viewing and for easy access should be in html, with a text download in txt extention.
Yes people would have to be added to update their own tutorials I am not sure how that would work.
As for audios, there would have to be some rules for them.
Language, and voice, the hardware, etc.
I can see audio accompanying a standard tutorial but I wouldn't want an audio tutorial on its own.
There would have to be rules on what formats were used.
Bunches of tutorials could be zipped I could see links to 7zip, even adobe for those viewing pdfs.
Over that though pdfs would have to be straight text and not scanned text if allowed.
Here is the cludge, not everyone is going to have or want an office program to view a tutorial, I think wordpad can handle rtf but don't quote me on this.
So your formats sould be txt and probably html with maybe audio.
In terms of audio, most players can play mp3s.
Not everyone will be able to play ogg and or flack files.
One thing that will have to be stopped immediately is for those that do tutorials posting them in wav files or if they do someone is going to have to convert those to mp3 files befor posting them.
Also unless high quality is needed 128-192 kbps files are probably ok, we don't want people to use lots of their internet especially since we don't know how stable x person's net could be especially outside standard developed countries.
I am not sure about language, there is no way everyone could post in every language and or that sort of thing either.
English would have to be the commen language used I am not sure how translations of tutorials would be handled I could see you selecting a language and maybe the tutorials could be translated by those that knew a language but its tedius if there was a lot of them.
That may be doable if slow.
But what we absolutely don't want is a tutorial written in another language first posted without an english translation, and it would be better if tutorials were in english first otherwise that could become a problem.
Then again if the person doing this is not good in english such as it would have to be edited to make sence if they feel that they are comfortable writing in their own language and as long as someone can translate into english and is good at both then thats probably ok.
When I wrote the proposal yesterday on the back of the last drama session I never fully thought about what I was fully meaning till I read this message, the poster is right.
Now once set up I do think the resource if kept updated will be a really good idea but it really needs to be set up properly.
Sadly google translate is not always the best to translate anything into english unless that is all you want is a general meaning.
On 21/11/2017 11:04 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
1. tutorials. Several issues here, where are they, are they up to
date, who is doing them and in what format are they?
I'd suggest if anyone wants to do audio ones the first thing to do is
to use a slowed down voice. As we are talking to people starting out,
it takes time and maybe even never will get to a point where they can
hear as fast as you do. Also the voice should be something
understandable and something available in all flavours of windows with
no additional downloads.
Do not assume anything, and be clear about the intention when you are
demonstrating things.
Of course it gets more complicated if you are also talking about
tutorials in other languages than English, and sometimes the demo will
need to be significantly different given the complexity of none Latin
based languages.
2 Ribbons, the eternal war of words on these has broken out yet again.
To my mind there will always be this problem. Some are simply not able
to grasp the conventions, and I hold my hands up to being in this
group. The best course I think is to simply point people at
explanations and files to maybe try to make them go away wherever you
can for those like me who are obviously thick in this area! Certainly
lets not argue about them ad infinitum every couple of months.
3. Bugs you think you have discovered in nvda.
Firstly ask here, it could be a bug or it could be an issue with the
machine or software on it. Once you have exhausted the alternatives,
at least try to get an account on github. (Is there a tutorial for
this too?) and report your findings there.Although some developers do
watch here, they can miss things just posted here amongst the noise of
everyday queries. If you cannot actually figure out the issues
reporting section of Github, and it can be a bit daunting if you do
not use online forms a lot, then subscribe to one of the lists such as
the developers one. These seem to be all listed with their
subscription details on the nv access web site. Then if you are
baffled by github, and it being a relatively low traffic list, ask
somebody to help you report it there. Do not clutter that list with
questions or crospost the posts here over there though, as they will
not be as tolerant of it as it seems they are here.
Always read up on an issue first if you can.
4. Testing nvda new features. In the main for most who just want to
use nvda, then use the release version, but always have a back up
portable version that you can run in an emergency from a keyboard
shortcut.
This is especially needed if you want to test snapshot builds, and RC
releases, of course as if there are bugs its far easier to reboot to a
known good version and them try to figure out what went wrong!
Remember, next snaps are very much untested ideas, Master are beta
releases and mostly work but occasionally do contain regressions that
can trap the unwary. RC release candidate builds come in two flavours.
Thos on the snapshot pages which are basically the same as the release
but still contain error sounds enabled and those often flagged up in
messages to the various lists which are more or less full versions
complete with error sounds removed.
5. If somebody here annoys you. go and take a walk before writing any
reply to the list. Often the words may sound critical or harsh, but
most often this is because of the lack of human intonation. it might
be slightly sarcastic or just a joke. Best ignored if its obviously
badly meant, as flame wars can occur and nobody wins.
Debate is fine but if you are not willing to listen then don't bother
getting involved.
6. On a personal note, although I do try to read back through the days
messages and make one reply, I am often thwarted by the time warp in
email delivery from mailing lists, which can delay things by up to a
day, meaning one has to reply again to take account of new info. This
is not uncommon so don't jump on people unless its clear they are
responding to each and every message in a thread all the time. always
read back a bit in the list before posting a question, as it could
well be that its been asked before.this is evident in the many threads
on at the moment about Firefox 57, craptum.
grin. I suppose we all make mistakes and do not add to threads or
indeed not change the sub line when the meaning alters.
Anyway, just needed to say some stuff, I'm off for a lie down now.
Brian
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