Re: screen review commands not working for me

Gene
 

object navigation, from what I gather, is similar to the relatively new touch cursor navigation in JAWS, if I remember the name correctly.  It has nothing to do with the PC cursor.  JAWS instituted the touch cursor to do things that object navigation can do such as work with Windows touch screen apps that require that kind of access for partial or full functioning.  I don't know more about touch screen apps.  Even without touch screen apps, there are times you can see things using object navigation that you can't using screen review.  There are also times you can see things using screen review you can't see with object navigation.
 
I haven't looked to any extent at the tutorial I've been discussing and sending the link to but it has sections on the different review modes.  Screen review is similar to the JAWS cursor, though the commands to work with it are different.  \\
 
Browse mode is almost identical to the virtual pc cursor and is used on web pages and in PDF readers that support it as the virtual pc cursor is in JAWS. 
 
I would advise looking at the tutorial or some other good source that describes different review modes.  And since browse mode isn't a review mode, it won't be in those sections. 
 
Gene
----- original Message -----

From: Kenny
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] screen review commands not working for me

So Gene, thinking of this in JAWS termonology.

Object Navigation ([Insert]+[Numpad 1]is similar to the PC cursor on JAWS?
Screen Review ([Insert]+[Numpad7]is similar to the JAWS cursor in JAWS?
Browse mode (Don't know the key combination for this one) is similar to the Invisible cursor in JAWS?

Does NVDA have a mode that's similar to the Virtual cursor in JAWS? If so, what is it and the keyboard shortcut to enable it?

Once I get use to the above, everything else will fall into place.

At 09:19 PM 12/8/2017, you wrote:
The information is correct and I agree with the recommendation not to have the annoyance and frustration of using the laptop layout precisely because of the lack of consistency.  Also, note that what I said is said in the tutorial, make sure you are in object navigation for what you are doing.  the person doing the Window-eyes transition tutorial wisely didn't explain why to do the things he/she suggests.  It isn't prductive or practical to explain object navigation in a brief transition tutorial. 
For now, remember that numpad insert numpad 7 moves you to screen review mode and numpad insert numpad 1 moves you to object navigation mode.  You may come across another mode while moving.  Ignore it.  The modes are announced so you will know what mode you are in.
 
Gene
------- Original Message -----
From: Brice Mijares
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2017 4:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] screen review commands not working for me

Here's that brief tutorial. and I don't remember where I got it.
Here are the screen-reader commands you will need to know to allow you
to do a lot of what you did before with Window-Eyes:
To unload NVDA, insert q then enter.
Read title bar, insert t.
Time, insert f12.
Announce formatting information, insert f.
Read current Window, insert b. In Window-eyes the command is control
shift w.
Read to end, insert down arrow. Use the down arrow on the main keyboard.
In the laptop layout, read to end is NVDA key a.
Stop speech with control, as with screen-readers in general.
Screen review
I'm about to discuss screen-review commands. those let you review the
screen without changing the position of the cursor when editing a
document, or changing where you are in a dialog or anywhere else. But
first, I'll point out that Commands such as left arrow, right arrow,
control home, control end, control left arrow, and control right arrow
are Windows movement commands for moving in any standard edit field
including word processor edit fields. None of them will change.
Screen review commands
Note the pattern as I give these commands:
Read previous line, numpad 7.
Read current line, numpad 8.
Read next line, numpad nine.
You move in screen review to the previous or next line when you issue
those commands. You can keep moving and reading until you get to the top
or bottom of the screen.
Read previous word, numpad 4.
Read current word, numpad 5.
Read next word, numpad 6.
Read previous character, numpad 1.
Read current character, numpad 2.
Read next character, numpad 3.
Note the pattern:
Read current is the key in the middle of each of these rows.
Move to and read previous is the key on the left.
Move to and read next is the key to the right.
The lower the numbers, the smaller the movement unit. 1 2 and 3 move by
character.

4 5 and 6 move by word, etc.
Now, here are the laptop layout review commands:
Read current line, NVDA shift period
Move to and read next line, NVDA down arrow.
Move to and read previous line, NVDA up arrow.
Read current word, NVDA control period
Read previous word, NVDA control left arrow
Read next word, NVDA control right arrow
Announce current character, NVDA period.
Move to and read previous character, NVDA left arrow
Move to and read next character, NVDA right arrow.
After a little more discussion, I'll tell you how to change the keyboard
layout to laptop.
Getting back to the review keys in the laptop layout, There are sort of
patterns in the laptop layout but not the kind of uniform pattern as in
the desktop layout. If I had a laptop computer without a numpad, I'd buy
a USB numpad and not fool around with the laptop layout. But you can
decide that for yourself. But aside from predictable keys such as that
period is used for current, and that left and right arrows are used with
modifiers, you can't generalize more. Such patterns are not followed in
every previous and next item. In one of the previous and next items, up
and down arrow is used.
More review commands and review modes
Here are two more important commands:
Jump to top of window, shift numpad 7. Laptop layout command: control
NVDA key home.
Jump to bottom of window, shift numpad 9. Laptop layout command: Control
NVDA key end.
I've said top and bottom of Window but that's oversimplified. It depends
what kind of review mode you are using. I won't go into that to any
extent in this very short tutorial.
A brief introduction to review modes
If you are reviewing material in a word processor, use the review
commands I've given. If you are in a dialog or some other structures, in
order to see what is on screen, change to screen review mode. to do
this, use the command numpad insert numpad 7 in the desktop layout. In
the laptop layout, the command is NVDA key page up. Issue the command
and repeat it if necessary until you hear screen review. Then you can
use the review commands such as numpad 7, 8 9, etc. to review what is on
screen.
After you have finished working in screen review, it is very important
to return to object review. Issue the command numpad insert numpad one
in the desktop layout. the laptop layout command is NVDA Key page down.
Repeat the command if necessary until you hear object review. If you
don't do this, you will often hear incorrect information about where you
are when you do various things in NVDA.
Changing keyboard layout
I shall now explain how to change the layout from the desktop to the
laptop layout and discuss causing the caps lock to be used as an NVDA
key. If you add capslock, you can still use either insert; there are
times when caps lock is very convenient.
to open keyboard settings, issue the command control insert k. You are
now in a list of layouts. the desktop is the default and the first in
the list. If you want to switch to the laptop layout, down arrow once
and then tab to and activate the ok button.
As you tab, you will notice check boxes about which keys serve as the
NVDA key. Caps lock is not checked. Check it with the space bar. You can
stay in the desk top layout and still tab and see these check boxes.
I use the caps lock key as an NVDA key often and I use the desktop
layout. I find it much more convenient to use for the read to end
command. I hold caps lock and press down arrow. That is, to me, much
more convenient than using insert down arrow, regardless of which insert
I use.
If you want to toggle caps lock on and off for typing, press it twice
quickly. If you press it once and hold it, it serves as an NVDA key. If
you press it twice quickly, it toggles caps lock on and off.
Mouse commands and review modes
To left click with the mouse, route the mouse to the review position
with the command numpad insert numpad slash. That is the same command
you left click wwith in Window-eyes. If you want to right click, route
the mouse with the same command (numpad insert numpad slash), then use
numpad star, the key immediately to the right of numpad slash. In other
words, you right click with the same key you use in Window-eyes.
Screen review, though the commands are different, is similar in concept
to using the mouse pointer in Window-eyes. Object navigation is
different from any review mode in Window-eyes. I won't teach its use
here but you will find a discussion of it in a tutorial I will give an
address for later in this tutorial. Depending on how you use your
computer, you may find it very useful.
That is just about all I will teach in this very short tutorial about
screen review and mouse. As I said, its purpose is to allow you to do
much of what you do with Window-eyes quickly and easily. But I'll tell
you a few more things.
Internet browsing:
When you are on a web page, quick navigation commands are almost
identical whether you are using NVDA or Window-eyes:
Move by headings is h.
Skip blocks of links is n.
Move to next button is b.
Next combo box is c.
Next check box is x.
Input help mode
NVDA has an input help mode which is similar to what is in Window-eyes.
Insert and 1 on the main keyboard turns it on. When you press a key or
combination of keys that might be a command, you will hear what the keys
are and what, if any command they execute. This varies depending on
where you are.
When in a browser that supports browse mode, typing a lot of individual
letters will give you information about what the keys do in browse mode.
I already gave much of that information above but you may want to press
a lot of keys using input mode in a browser. To turn input mode off use
the same command you used to turn it on, insert 1.
Additional information
To learn more about NVDA, a popular tutorial is available at:
http://www.josephsl.net/tutorials
On that page, you will see links to download different sections of the
tutorial dealing with different subjects. You can also download the
entire tutorial as a zip file.
There is also an e-mail list for NVDA users. To join, send a blank
message to this address:
nvda+subscribe@nvda.groups.io
I hope that this tutorial has removed much of your apprehension about
switching to NVDA. Now, as you wish or need, you may consult the
tutorial I gave a link to. NVDA is a powerful screen-reader and it will
meet a lot of users needs as well as JAWS or Window-eyes does. I hope
this very short tutorial gives you a good foundation on which to build
confidence that the transition should be much easier than you may have
thought and that it will help make it much more enjoyable.

On 12/8/2017 1:10 PM, Gene New Zealand wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> It did not really make it clear what he was trying to do and in what
> program. I have not listened to all of his tutorials or the series ehe
> had done by Joseph.
>
>
> I guess i will wait and see which program it is then see what he is
> doing wrong if he tells me.
>
>
> Gene nz
>
>
>
> On 12/9/2017 9:38 AM, Gene wrote:
>> you must be in object navigation mode for these commands to work as
>> described in the section of the tutorial being worked with
>> Gene
>> *From:* Gene New Zealand < mailto:hurrikennyandopo@...>
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 08, 2017 2:19 PM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io < mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] screen review commands not working for me
>>
>> Hi
>>
>>
>> could i ask in what program are you trying to do it in?
>>
>>
>> On a desktop computer to go into screen review is the nvda key + 7 on
>> the numeric keypad.
>>
>>
>>
>> The commands given are review text or text review commands you can use
>> with screen review.
>>
>>
>> Depending what you are trying to do you may need to route the mouse to
>> that position? or activate a button with a object navigation command.
>>
>>
>> Make sure also your num lock key is turned off.
>>
>>
>> the other thing to is on the numeric keypad we can use screen review
>> press the nvda key + 7 to go into that mode.
>>
>> Using the nvda key + 1 on the numeric keypad will take you down the
>> modes like document review I think it is called and object navigation.
>>
>> the document review mode may only show in some applications. if it can.
>>
>>
>> using the nvda key + 7 will take you back through the modes if there
>> this may change in each application to what it reveals.
>>
>>
>> Gene nz
>>
>>
>> On 12/9/2017 8:20 AM, Brice Mijares wrote:
>>> When I hit numpad 8 to read current line, it reads a completely
>>> different line.  Same with previous line, word or character ETC. The
>>> tutorial was called getting started with NVDA.
>>>
>>> On 12/8/2017 10:50 AM, Gene wrote:
>>>> What do you mean when you say they don't work?  Assuming the
>>>> commands are doing something, what are they doing?
>>>> Gene
>>>> ----- original Message -----
>>>> *From:* Brice Mijares <mailto:bricemijares@... >
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, December 08, 2017 12:45 PM
>>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io < mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>> *Subject:* [nvda] screen review commands not working for me
>>>>
>>>> I've been trying to follow the following directions, but these
>>>> directions are not working for me. I made sure I was in desktop layout.
>>>> It was a brief tutorial by Joseph Lee and I had copied it to wordpad
>>>> and
>>>> was trying to use the numpad keys to read it.
>>>>
>>>> Screen review commands
>>>> Note the pattern as I give these commands:
>>>> Read previous line, numpad 7.
>>>> Read current line, numpad 8.
>>>> Read next line, numpad nine.
>>>> You move in screen review to the previous or next line when you issue
>>>> those commands. You can keep moving and reading until you get to the
>>>> top
>>>> or bottom of the screen.
>>>> Read previous word, numpad 4.
>>>> Read current word, numpad 5.
>>>> Read next word, numpad 6.
>>>> Read previous character, numpad 1.
>>>> Read current character, numpad 2.
>>>> Read next character, numpad 3.
>>>> Note the pattern:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Image NVDA certified expert
>> Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related
>> material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where
>> you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can
>> use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To
>> find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit
>> http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
>> (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert
>> near you, please visit the following link
>> https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains
>> the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world,
>> who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
>
> --
> Image NVDA certified expert
> Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related
> material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you
> are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a
> copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out
> which locations (or location) is near to you please visit
> http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
> (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert
> near you, please visit the following link
> https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the
> official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who
> have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
>

Join nvda@nvda.groups.io to automatically receive all group messages.