Re: Firefox Accessibility (was Re: Avg was Re: [nvda] malware bites question)

John Isige

I know this is difficult for people to grasp, because some of you have
to have a persecution complex about being blind. I have no idea what
article is being referred to, but it's correct. Essentially, the code
injection screen readers have been doing, because they were forced to do
it due to the fact that browsers didn't expose enough accessibility
information, is exactly the same kind of code injection malware uses.
That's because code injection is code injection. Look, let me put it
this way, and maybe it will help.

Suppose you install a program, and it installs a toolbar and resets your
homepage and all that good stuff, without asking your permission to do
so. That's bad right? Now suppose you install a music player, and
without asking you, it installs a thing that let's you download twenty
free songs from iTunes. You might be quite happy about that because you
get free music.

But it still shouldn't have installed stuff without asking you, right? I
mean even though this was a thing it turns out you wanted, it's not
really a good idea to let programs just install extra stuff without
asking. Well, same thing here. Sure the code injection was being used
for a good purpose in this case, just like the free music is good. But
just as you got the free music through a bad technique, something we
don't want happening really, so too with code injection.

Finally, let me answer the truly dumb objection that this doesn't really
help anything, because people who want to mess with your computer will
always find a way. Because I know that's going to be one of the replies.
That's like saying it's dumb for me to lock my doors, and that I should
instead open all my doors and windows and hang some signs saying "free
stuff, burglars!", because if somebody really and truly wants to break
into my house, there's probably a way to do it. So just because there's
been a bunch of burglaries in my neighborhood lately, I shouldn't bother
adding any kind of extra security or anything, because if they want to
get my stuff, that can, I can't stop everything.

As a matter of fact this is actually happening right now. They're
telling people repeatedly to lock their cars, because unlocked cars in
our neighborhood have been entered and stuff's been stolen from them. Is
a good response "eh, don't worry about locking your cars, if they really
want in all they have to do is find a handy rock or brick and break one
of your windows"!

That's absolutely true, but ignores the fact that actually, locked cars
aren't being hit. Now of course we can't say that will continue, maybe
they're just going for the easiest stuff and they'll quite happily start
breaking into locked cars if there are no more unlocked cars. But the
simple fact is that right now, unlocked cars are being hit and locked
cars are not being hit, so it seems pretty straightforward to me that
locking your car is a sensible response, instead of assuming that you
should do nothing whatsoever because if they really want to break into
your car, they will.

On 12/14/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
All of this has come about because of the mindset of programmers I
fear. I'm beginning to see why Jamie went there, but its like having a
water pistol in a nuclear war.
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Everiss" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Firefox Accessibility (was Re: Avg was Re: [nvda] malware
bites question)

Well after the issue with the web controls, the fact they got rid of
a lot of old things and no I'm not refuring to the navigational
sounds addon, noscript can no longer have its menu and its all
buttons those are not accessible.

Multiprocesser slows down the system causes it to crash on youtube
and other sites.

Removal of xul support and adding of the poor implimentation of web
extentions means I can't access options dialogs.

The fact they wrote that accessibility software like screenreaders
could be used as malware while part of that is true the way I read
the article is that they think all accessibility software is malware.

Just like when avg became bad norton and other things I no longer
trust them.

I miss the extra extentions for associations but thats all.

On 14/12/2017 5:24 a.m., Kevin Huber wrote:
Hi Shaun:

I think I read somewhere that the Mozilla people are working on an
accessibility fix for the next version that comes out, or the
following one. Whether you can take them at their word or not remains
to be seen, but I wouldn't count them out completely yet. Meanwhile,
Google Chrome seems to work well with both NVDA and JAWS. Granted,
there a few things that you have to get used to, but the learning
curve doesn't seem to steep.

Kevin Huber

On 12/13/17, Shaun Everiss <> wrote:
To be honest thats why I like.

1. a pc with a data drive as well as a system drive.

2. backups.

I have had security programs muck me about.

But thats not a problem, all my data is double backed up on spining
drives, the important stuff is on solid state drives and the cloud.

If something screws up, just reformat and don't do it again.

A reformat always fixes it.

I know it will take me about 2 days to install and several days to
reconfigure things.

Sadly I do not have a 2 drive system, the next powerbox I get will
one even though the weight will be more.

My dad and brother both have this system.

That technically means that if I have a place to store configs of
things, and my data, if it screws up, in theory I can cut the restore
time in half.

It may take you days to resolve the issue.

It may take a week or 2 to fully restore but at least you know
where you

I use msse, and malwarebytes if something stupid goes up at me.

I do have ublock and noscript 5x on my side, still sore about what
mozilla did to firefox and web extentions, it appears they don't care
about accessibility anymore.

Its not spread to thunderbird yet and I have waterfox, that at
least runs.

And thats all I care about.

I know thats selfish but I have been there and done that.

Avg was good once.

But then norton was darn good bar a few niggles from 1995-2003, after
that it went downhill.

Which was just sad, I still respect old nav, ndd, norton speed, and
windoctor for their ease of use.

Its all gone baa humbug!

Now we must use crap software just to use our systems and not even
is it always safe to use your programs even with that but at least you
can control it.

If you switch to something better there is no garantee that it will
that way.

Now I want to be protected.

Its just I really don't want to worry about program x suddenly being
marked as bad even though it was good for ages.

I don't need to reformat every couple weeks because things get

I don't want to search for things or check things were working and I
really don't care about babysitting.

In the early days I did that.

For whatever reason when I was 10 years yunger I enjoyed that.

Not so much now.

When msse first came out I realised how much time I was wasting.

I havn't found anything to compair, not that win defender is safe,
alarms on a lot of blind games and programs not as much as other
software but still means I have to keep watch.

Even so I can still use my computer most of the time.

On 11/12/2017 11:09 p.m., Angela Delicata wrote:

I tried avg remover, but it is impossible to use with screen

So, in the end, I suppose i have to wait till some sighted helps me.

thank you anyway and if you ave more suggestions they will be very


Il 11/12/2017 10:42, Ian Blackburn ha scritto:
If it’s like a vast then you need to use a clear program from the
website completely in accessible

The vast clear program makes the computer boot up into a special
that you must use the mouse to operate that will clear your avast

Sent from my iPhone

On 11 Dec 2017, at 5:40 pm, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<> wrote:

Is Avg a 64 bit install? if not then the old version of Revo will do
it or always used to.
I'd have thought that their site would give some kind of help on
removal but it may well involve the sighted. The problem is as they
now seem to belong to the same outfit as Avast they are probably
prohibiting screenreaders from hooking in to their code as well.

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela Delicata"
To: <>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] malware bites question


Please excuse me if the question is not close related to nvda, but
as you are talking about antivirus program, I thought I would
try to

I installed avg antivirus, but as it is not so accessible, I would
like to remove it completely. it is impossible to do so because it
seems it has some problems removing itself.

does any one know how to do? If you can, please help me.

Even after installing Windows 10 avg is still here!
I really have no idea on how to handle it.
Thank you in advance.
Angela from Italy

Il 11/12/2017 02:05, Gary Metzler ha scritto:
Hi Anthony,

The threat is from bible seeker. I hope this helps.

-----Original Message----- From: Antony Stone
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] malware bites question

What problem did it report?

Without knowing what the "threat" is, we can't usefully advise on
what to do
about it.


On Sunday 10 December 2017 at 17:39:02, Gary Metzler wrote:

Hi All,

I ran the free trial of malware bites and it found a threat.
How do I
delete it? I am using the latest windows and nvda. Thanks for any
help.Regards, Gary kn4ox sendto:

Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.


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