Re: competition


Why not take the lead from modern browsers like FireFox and Chrome when considering what’s an add-on and what’s an integrated part of the program itself?

Think of it as NVDAZilla…

Incorperate what may be considered essential functions or would at the very least be highly useful towards the user experience and leave everything else for folks to tailor as they see fit? Sure that may still be left open to interpretation, but could at least be considered as a base to work off from.

Take FireFoxes reader view or whatever it’s called. In Chrome, you can install various extensions to strip down a website for easier reading, whereas in FireFox, this feature was finally built into the browser itself starting in the versions 40s.

It’s as easy as doing an alt+control+r to toggle on and off. I for the most part hardly use the Jaws Flexible Web feature anymore when doing general browsing since I find this to be a faster means of getting in and out of a site if I’m just passing  through instead of maybe a page or domain I would be going back to over and over again.

Having a reader mode or pagination command in NVDA I think would be useful by pretty much anyone. Not to say there couldn’t be add-ons built separately, but something like that… would essentially enhance the user experience.  


From: [] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition


That is an arbitrary distinction. 
Do you want JAWS to drop all nonessential scripts?  I don't think many people would support dropping Winamp support in JAWS.  In NVDA, what difference does it make if this support is achieved by an add-on, a script, or in some other way.  When do you define a script as a core function.  the distinction that no add ons should be shipped and running because they are not core functions is arbitrary.  and, to be consistent, why is the links list a core function?  I consider the links list to be a harmful feature for inexperienced users because it sounds wonderful to an inexperienced user but, if used before a thorough understanding of navigation is achieved, hinders learning by encouraging people to work in a completely artificial environment.  I'm not trying to start an argument about the links list.  I'm pointing out that the core function ideology isn't consistently followed even now, though it mostly is. 


its time to seriously consider the question, why must there be a distinction between add ons and the core of NVDA?  Why shouldn't some add ons be a part of NVDA.  Wouldn't developer resources be better spent doing other things than duplicating functions available as add ons so they may be placed in the core?  Just include the add ons as part of the product. 



----- Original Message -----

From: Rui Fontes

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:16 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] competition


Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core...


Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core...




Rui Fontes



Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:

NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete.  I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on.  It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature.  It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project.  And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources.  However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it.  


Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation.  Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons.  there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. 


If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with.  the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed.  If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. 



----- Original Message -----

From: Don H

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM

Subject: [nvda] competition


When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.


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