Re: Screen Shade/curtain?


Austin Pinto <austinpinto.xaviers@...>
 

why cant people use windows and p and then select projector or second
screen only.
this fully shuts off your main screen.this may not work on laptops or
pcs with a second graphics card

On 12/18/17, Lino Morales <linomorales001@gmail.com> wrote:
Why should he? Turn off your damn scree! Their I said it. Simple
sulution. Glad to hear when this debate is over.


On 12/17/2017 10:35 PM, Kevin Chao wrote:
Yes, Joseph, privacy is for local humans which is real and practical,
not philosophical theory machine...
It is fine if you do not have this use case, but please respect those
of us who need this feature in screen reader.
On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 6:43 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com
<mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi,

That’s for humans. But if we factor in machines, it changes the
game significantly. Even though if sighted folks cannot view
what’s in front of them when this feature is on, folks using
remote software can.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>] *On
Behalf Of *enes saribas
*Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:34 PM


*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

however joseph, This fact doesn't change the fact that 99% of
sighted people cannot breach the screen privacy features of screen
readers. Heck, I used to turn on keyboard help to prevent people
from pressing keys when I was away from my pc. A sighted person is
extremely unlikely to know how to re-enable the screen. Most
users, unless they are advanced users, are totally hopeless when
they cannot see the screen.

On 12/18/2017 5:20 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Rebuttal: privacy these days is something you don’t really
“see”. Take advanced malware, for example that can take a look
at what you’re doing without raising suspicion and no need to
keep the monitor on. That’s the point I’m getting at. Screen
shade is just one piece; others are user attitude, programs
(both good and bad), and the target or info one is looking at.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *David Moore
*Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:52 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look
over their shoulder for prying eyes.

That is a great point! Good come back LOL!

I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned
something right there!

David Moore

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*From: *Kevin Chao <mailto:kevinchao89@gmail.com>
*Sent: *Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work
information, which we may not know about prying eyes, and a
sighted person can see when someone is looking over their
shoulders.

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@ripco.com
<mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>> wrote:

As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the
Windows settings and doing so may cause you real trouble
if you can do it.  If you unexpectedly need sighted
assistance, to deal with some sort of maintenance or
performance problem, the screen should be on.

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is
still on and a sighted person can work with the machine if
needed.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*David Moore <mailto:jesusloves1966@gmail.com>

*Sent:*Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

I agree that we should only have features in screen
readers that many people will really need, and will help
them do a job. Many features in some screen readers are
just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches
for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need
this screen shade, because you can just turn off your
screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that
for someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help
people work many jobs, that should be the first
importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible
with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play
hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has
either. I am so glad it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes
to install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my
computer.

David Moore

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Windows 10

*From: *Gene New Zealand
<mailto:hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz>
*Sent: *Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi

I agree with Joseph.

There might be things from other screen readers we might
use or might not use so I would rather the developers
concentrate on screen reader features that help.

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on
and that way if one is made you have the choice of either
adding it or not.

then down the track it could be added like you see with
some addons that code gets added to the core of nvda.

Gene nz

On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in
the core one day in nvda.   if you don't want to use
it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for
us blind screen reader users that is needed and would
be a good thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work
all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in
the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is
screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on
screen reading, with add-ons coming in with
optional features. I do understand that I can be
heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out
below, but I'm speaking from experience that just
following the lead of another screen reader just
because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable
with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature
cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are
numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds,
speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin
Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a
little program on my laptops that should do this
but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda
and Joseph for you just to say that you won't
consider it if people say other screen readers
have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but
not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save
energy. But why not simply switching off the
screen (power button on an external monitor,
or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key
combination) on a laptop? Then you have both
advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and
the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe
it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the
status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the
video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA
(nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
As noted by some members, screen
shade/curtain shows what appears to be a
blank screen. This is used to "guarantee"
privacy for screen reader users. Note the
quotation marks around "guarantee", as it
does not really guarantee privacy, as
there are means to circumvent this (speech
output, braille displays, remote access,
etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function
does not result in extended battery life
nor power savings. When this function is
turned on, an overlay window is imposed on
top of other windows, and turning this off
removes this overlay. As I said above,
this does not provide privacy as many of
you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader:
my overall opinion is that it should not.
If people want it, then I think an add-on
would be a more appropriate solution. Only
after looking at justifications and costs
should developers consider adding this
into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally
for me, a justification that goes along
the lines of, "because another screen
reader has this" is something I won't even
consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is
exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming
the monitor, I do not understand why it
would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop,
tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of
the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary
between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display
modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external
monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to
light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight
with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for
that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen
(to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the
backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone
it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case
that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent
to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this
functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about
something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list
account via Groups.Io wrote:

From what I know about Windows and
indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its
not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have
thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that
never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda
that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a
thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this
on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From:
"Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@gmail.com>
<mailto:kevinchao89@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017
11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain
feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature
via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!














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