Re: Screen Shade/curtain?


Lenron
 

The reasons he is giving that this shouldn't be done seems to me to be
a dislike of the feature, or maybe because he is never in a situation
where this could be useful.

On 12/18/17, Tyler Wood <tcwood12@...> wrote:
Hi,
Thank you for this.
It doesn't matter who uses it and who doesn't - it's not like screen
shade is going to take up a ton of space in NVDA anyway. Regardless of
whether or not a screen reader has this built in (everything does at
this point, even android), the argument that security and privacy is
already bad enough implies that a) The people who would use screen
shade have bad security practices and b) That it's simply logical that
we don't provide an alternative way to protect said privacy because
there are other third party ways. Or, better yet as someone pointed
out, turn off our computers!

In this day and age where technology is at the forefront, would you
enjoy it if your boss ambled on into your office while you were
quickly, on your break, looking at your bank or paying a bill?
Checking your email? Yes, I'm aware this in itself is probably viewed
as security practice - but a sighted person could just click out of
the page before their boss even saw what was on the screen.

Does screen shade not have something to do with 'reading' in privacy?
I should also add here that most computers later than 2012 aren't
going to have the second screen only option work unless there is
physically a second monitor connected. Anything past sandy bridge and
Intel Atom z series processors the option won't stick. Running third
party software is hit or miss, and often times miss. If you yourself
wouldn't use it, it doesn't mean it wouldn't come in handy for others
and I'm really failing to see the problem here. The reasons given are
vague and, as Gean pointed out, lack so much logic. It's essentially -
don't bother, we're not going to do it and you might as well shut off
your computer because nobody is safe these days.

A small part of me is wondering if it's because another did it first?
If it isn't doable in NVDA I'd rather know now. That's fine. It would
make more sense than the reasons given at this point. Sorry.

On 12/17/17, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
You may be able to make a logical argument based on the core function of
a
screen-reader assertion, but none of your other arguments are logical nor
validd. they are so weak that, whether this is true or not, they give
the
appearance of being motivated by dislike of the feature or by the belief
that it isn't a core function and your strong dislike of the argument
that
it is.

The essence of your other arguments is that the perfect should make no
room
for the imperfect or limited function. Since it can't protect against
all
privacy, then don't try to protect against any invasion of privacy. If
someone can read the screen in your environment, and you being completely
unaware because you can't see them do it, then let's not do anything to
stop
this because your material can be compromised in so many other ways.

Let's stop locking our houses since it's so easy for skilled criminals to
break in. Let's not close bathroom doors when staying at hotels. While
this might keep those in the room with us from looking at us when we are
naked, someone could put a camera in the bathroom and spy on us. That is
the nature of your arguments and such arguments aren't logical.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows
settings
and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do it. If you
unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of
maintenance
or performance problem, the screen should be on.

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and a
sighted
person can work with the machine if needed.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: David Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many
people
will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some
screen
readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for
you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade,
because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be
employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that
should
be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible
with
a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so
glad
it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install
JAWS,
and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?



Hi



I agree with Joseph.



There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not
use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader
features
that help.



if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if
one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.



then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that
code gets added to the core of nvda.







Gene nz





On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough, but I still think it should be in the core one day
in
nvda. if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a
feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a
good
thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:



Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I
believe
that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on
screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do
understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out
below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of
another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm
uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot
guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it,
including
sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on
my
laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in
nvda
and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say
other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:



Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not
simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or
using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have
both
advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a
bit

like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:



Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears
to
be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader
users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really
guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output,
braille displays, remote access, etc.).
From what I can gather, this function does not result in
extended
battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an
overlay
window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes
this
overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you
may
think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is
that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a
more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs
should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and
personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because
another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf
Of

Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not
understand why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ...
whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use
Fn+f7

for switching between different display modes (signal send only
to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal
send

to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save
battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on
may

be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is
the

signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue
whether

windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this
is

a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to
be

exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely
different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:



From what I know about Windows and indeed most
screenreaders,
this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any
battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible
to
do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus
but

then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use
the

invisible window not the visible one.

In the issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?





Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and
JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!

































--


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--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762

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