Re: competition

erik burggraaf <erik@...>

Well, It wouldn't be totally unreasonable for the developers to pick maybe three or five of the best most useful add-ons, bundle them with NVDA, and offer them during instalation.  Browsers do that.  Other screen readers would be worthless if they didn't install their scripts.  Their development is a bit different from NVDA's

It's not about space really, although keeping nvda small isn't a bad thing.
Philosophically speaking, we expect our OS, windows, our software, and our screenreader NVDA, to all comply with standards to the point where add-ons aren't needed.  Thus, bundling add-ons, while not bad, wouldn't comply with the core philosophy.  Then again, making the screen reader extensible and allowing add ons would be strictly against the letter of new paradigm and NVDA philosophy.

Then there are distribution and licencing issues. because of add-ons are developed by third parties mostly.  These issues may include, licencing, updates, quality control, and more.

Then there is a performance and stability concern.  I don't use many add-ons, but theoretically, the more add-ons installed, the less stable the NVDA, and the more margin for error.  If you have an issue where NVDA is crashing, it's nice to know there are no add-ons in the equasion, or at least, to know what add-ons are in use.  If NVDA installs add-ons it thinks you want, you may be unaware that those are active when you go to troubleshoot NVDA.

Add-ons make a good testing ground for new ideas.  Ocasionally, an add-on developed for something crytical such as a braille display driver, will actually get intergrated into NVDA core.  So, you get the benefit of the add-on, along with the performance and stability of intergration, and the convenience of not having to research and install key functionality.

Bundling add-ons has some serious advantages and disadvantages.  It would be nice to have as many add-ons as possible swept up together into a store or other convenient distribution channel, but I'm pretty happy with the current system of carefully testing and intergrating add-ons that provide key functionality or features



On December 18, 2017 6:32:12 PM "Karim Lakhani" <karim.lakhani@...> wrote:

Can someone explain why add are not included in the main install of the APP.
If the add on's are useable by all the community, why not add them in the main install?
I hope this doesn't come down to the amount of data you have, I know it will be cheaper then 1800.00
Some of us don't have the knowledge to accomplish these functions.
I think it's like Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you use it.
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From: [] On Behalf Of Mike and Jenna
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition

I have to agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot with the disability place I work for part time. I have several elders after showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they dont have to deal with addons.


From: [] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition


A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install them.  You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does.  I'm not talking about including add on after add on in NVDA.  I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and install.  Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on. 



----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] competition


What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use.


El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió:

Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core...


Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core...




Rui Fontes



Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:

NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete.  I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on.  It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature.  It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project.  And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources.  However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it.  


Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation.  Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons.  there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. 


If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with.  the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed.  If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. 



----- Original Message -----

From: Don H

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM

Subject: [nvda] competition


When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.


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