Re: I'm dissappointed


Youre asuming that all employers use complicated programs, but most, youre assuming that commercial screen readers supports all these strange programs fine, and in my experience it is not necessary true.

 I don't know if my English is enough to explain this point, but I have some experience in this because in my country (chile) I worked or had some closeness with foundations whose mission was to help blind people get a job (my relationship is not the best one with them these days, but I worked there after all). In those cases, my role ranged from training on specific issues in JAWS (JAWS is or was a kind of natural monopoly in Chile) to implementing jobs in companies that were associated with the work of this foundation or, some who had hired blind people without having dealt with this foundation, people who were not working properly before which, the user or themselves contacted the foundation to try something else before deciding this blind person is not the adequate for this work. In that context, all the people I dealt with were trained only in the use of JAWS (until a while ago, me and my dear NVDA were a rarity, strictly speaking) and I came across several of those rare databases. Well, the general rule of thumb is that such programs were as poorly supported by JAWS as any other screen reader, and the only alternative for those of us who were implementing the workstation was to do some scripting in JAWS to support that particular database. In this sense, elements that are considered advanced, lyke use of frames or the activation of “say all” at a specific moment in time, were approached through our scripting.

Years later, when I was already an active NVDA user (that happened for me at about NVDA’s version 0.6, but this was later, maybe in 2013) and having been my last serious contact with that foundation to teach labor law to those who were being trained (yes, my computer approach had given way to what I studied) I was asked to go check a particular and teach some tricks to someone who, although trained, needed for the job to which he was working very fast in his job. Well, I went, I started remembering how to use JAWS while I was teaching him some things, and in the meantime, I loaded NVDA to get an idea of how the program in question was set up. At that moment, the user tells me "oh, someone speak to me about that, but it doesn't work here", so I used object navigation, browsed the screen, got to the controls that were inaccessible with key combinations (and that required scripting or JAWS cursor) and activated them on my own. Of course, with that I then repaired the scripts to make them more reliable and taught him strictly in JAWS, which is what I had been asked for, but I tell this story because in my experience a lot of the programs that we have implemented over the years, from the factory have as bad support with JAWS as with NVDA, and in the long run it is scripting (which we users do) that makes the difference. In this example, I am certain that with an appmodule I would have achieved better results than the user with JAWS and an unreliable script, which tended to work more with pixels on the screen than with the class of objects (something I solved at least).

Other screen readers work best with office programs? Yes, I may agree, but personally, I am a lawyer, I work essentially with office programs and OCR all the day and NVDA is more than enough for me.

This does not mean that there is no reason for what you say. It would be crazy to go and promote NVDA to any company without knowing its requirements, but I'm sure that in several of the companies where I implemented jobs or for which I provided support to workers overwhelmed by a reader who did not respond as their employer expected, equally absurd would have been to promote JAWS as a final solution, and that's why those of us before anything opened the program, we reviewed what it was like, we learned how to use it, we do some kind of scripting...

Obviously, it is only my experience, and in a small country, but I think is something that some other people experienced.



El 22/12/2017 a las 20:06, Gene escribió:
This discussion is really removed from reality.  Do a demonstration of what?  If an employer needs an employee to use a specific data base or other program that NVDA doesn't support, the demonstration will be worthless.  If the job just involves using standard Microsoft programs, a demonstration might accomplish something but many employers have specific programs they will allow and they won't allow others.  If you can find out in advance what programs are being used and that NVDA supports all those programs and if the employer will allow you to demonstrate, fine, but this discussion, as I said, is so removed from reality that it amounts to just emotional boosterism and that, if applied injudiciously will harm the reputation of NVDA, not help it. 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

You like wise, Rosemarie!

David Moore

Somehow, we have to go to employers and do a demonstration of NVDA right there. I don’t know if they would let any person do that, or do they have to be from an organization.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10


From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Hi, David,


I see where you're coming from. I think if more employers would give NVDA a chance, they could save a lot of money that they could be using to update things like Microsoft office. If I had a job, I'd insist on using NVDA.


Merry Christmas to you and Traci.




From: [] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Hi all!

I have been using NVDA 80 percent of the time since 2015.

I can access a lot more controls on web pages, access TV Streaming web sites, use YouTube like a breeze, and a lot more.

NVDA can access the Win10 universal apps much better than the shark LOL!

I only use the Shark a few times a month to do some very specific tasks.

I want to emphasize that I cannot access a lot with the shark that I can access with NVDA. I have talked to many people about NVDA, and I have helped a few people use NVDA part of the time.

It is so hard to get people to install the add ons. So many are so stubborn and say they want to use a screen reader that has everything built in, instead of having to hunt all over the place for add ons.

I give them the web sites to find all of them, but they just go back to using the Shark, which really cannot access Edge at all yet, NVDA does much better in Google apps, like Google Docs, sheets, and forms.

NVDA works great in Edge. I can do what I need to do with Edge using NVDA. NVDA is so simple to install, it does not leave footprints all over your computer, it installs in a minute or so. The shark takes 15 minutes for me, NVDA is more stable than the later versions of the Shark, Audio ducking does not work in the Shark, NVDA keeps up much better with changes in Windows, I use many Win10 apps with NVDA, and on and on.

The word is getting out, though, because everyone I talk to who uses the Shark, says that they have heard of NVDA and know someone who uses it.

We really need to get NVDA to employers, so they can see just how great it is for work as well as at home.

NVDA really can enable someone to do their job in the work place. It is easier, because NVDA would install on their computer systems, I would think, better than the Shark. Somehow, we need to let state rehabilitation agencies, employers, the government, know just how great NVDA is.

VFO constantly goes around the country and shows off the Shark to employers, state agencies, and many professional organizations.

Somehow, we need to find out how we can have many NVDA conventions around the world where NVDA is being demonstrated to high up people and all kinds of professionals.

That is where VFO has the upper hand.

We need to get the word out about just how NVDA really could enable people to do their professional job, and not just use it at home.

Merry Christmas all, and have a special time with family and friends.


David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10


From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


I dropped the shark in 2010 April. I have not looked back since. I've tried to convince my co workers  at my job to use nvda but they say that the shark is better because nvda was not meant fo the work place. Um? Huh? No? I use nvda at my work to do stuff all the time. True it's an at home thing, but still.


Take care all and have a happy Friday


On Dec 22, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Gerardo Corripio <gera1027@...> wrote:


Yes I've used NVDA as my main screen reader since January2015, and it's coming along! I really like the fact that apart from having to buy Vocalizer, Eloquence o or other voices specifically made for it (it's definitely a lot more cheaper than the other screen reader, with each symthesizer costing an average USD$100 versus the nearly USD$800 and upwards of the others); NVDA updates when it has to without having to worry of the SMA, via AddOns, we CAN adapt NVDA to our usage/liking/personality.. So NVDA keep up the great work! and let's continue helping spreading the word out!

El 22/12/2017 a las 12:40 p.m., Angela Delicata escribió:

+1000! I wish I know it before: I am really happy with nvda; it is a wonderful screen reader.

If we think all they ask is a donation and they give us such a wonderful product... Isn't it fantastic?

Happy vacation to all.


Angela from Italy

Il 22/12/2017 19:12, Sky Mundell ha scritto:

I totally agree with you. Lets all promote the use of this terrific product!

From: [] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:47 AM
Subject: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi all. FYI the Webame survey 7 results out out. It’s a mixed bag. I’m dissappoited in NVDA useage. Its at 31.9 percent and that other screen reader I won’t talk about anymore is at 46 percent. All I’ll say is this. Spread the word about NVDA. I know a lot of you have adopted the use of it over the past year now that WINEyes is dead. Also if you can send NV Access a donation.

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