Re: nvda with all addons built in


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Well if you mean this crackpot Windows 10s version then I've had my say on that and while I see why they want one, I do not think its of any use whatsoever.
If you are referring to the ARM processors or indeed the upgrade to the latest Python then I think when that starts one needs to make sure that people are aware of major changes well before and of course that a maintained old version is still around with add ons. It would be awful if it was too confusing for people.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 3:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in


Hi,

Hmmm…

This is something we should discuss with NV Access (perhaps during NVDACon 2018). One thing I can offer you is take these notes and incorporate them into my tutorial series, perhaps in the add-ons chapter (January 2018) where I can emphasize the fact that NVDA is extensible and tell people how to obtain add-ons.

But more importantly, there will come a time (spoiler alert) when there will be a version of NVDA without any add-ons (at least temporarily). I’ll talk about what I just stated in due course (for those who already know, shhh for now).

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in



Hi Joseph,
I think the problem with the approach that you outlined is that it relies on the end-user to have a good deal of knowledge. Not just for your app but for others as well. For those of us who view the computer as a means of getting a job done, this is too much. That is one reason why people continue to use other screen readers where they hope, for certain price, they have some of this work done for them. In other words, one shouldn’t have to be a techie geek kind of person in order to use NVDA. As long as that is required, the share of NVDA users will be limited.



Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 22, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> > wrote:

Hi,

As the author of Windows 10 App Essentials add-on, there are advantages and drawbacks to including this add-on as part of the NVDA Core. The biggest advantage is that you get more efficient access to universal apps (not all, but some), with the biggest difference being Skype universal app and announcing emojis in emoji panel. The biggest drawback is missing timely updates, in that Windows 10 changes so rapidly that it is not advisable to put the entire add-on inside NVDA Core (hence the snapshots and external update approach). Just today I released a new development snapshot for this add-on that corrects NVDA’s behavior on latest Windows 10 Insider Preview, which may or may not work in the next Insider Preview build. In terms of things that could be incorporated into NVDA Core, I’m looking into bringing smiles to users of Skype universal app by incorporating my app module into NVDA Core as soon as possible.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in



One way to look at this is the look at the functionality of the actual operating system. There is, for example, an add on for windows 10 essentials. That enables you to use and access certain app parts of the operating system. If you don’t have that, you have a problem. That should be incorporated into the core functionality of the screen reader ideally. But if they can’t do that, at least include the add on as a part of the package you get when you first download the screen reader. Beyond that, if there are add-ons which speak to the core functionality is that pretty much everybody uses if they have a computer, browsers, we’re processes, etc., those should be included. Extras such as Winamp, or

audio processing etc., those are extra. They’re not used by the majority. So there shouldn’t be included.
Mary

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 22, 2017, at 5:59 PM, William James <wil@wilanddenise.com <mailto:wil@wilanddenise.com> > wrote:

Weather add-ons should be included or not is subjective. Everyone learns the computer in different ways and approaches learning the computer in different stages. Some people are fast learners and some people are slow. There is no clear-cut answer on a yes or no question of what should be included. I know this, because I do this for a living.

Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus


On Dec 22, 2017, at 8:39 PM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com> > wrote:

There are certain very important add ons. Why, when such discussions come up, do people present yes or no choices, as though there are no other options. Those who want NvDA with no add ons can be offered NVDA with no add ons. A lot of users will never learn anything about add ons. If the Windows 10 add on is needed to use many features well in Windows 10, that add on should be included in distributions of NVDA intended for the general user. If Winamp is still as popular as it used to be, the Winamp add on should probably be included. What about the add on, which I gather isn't an officially supported NVDA add on but which should be seriously considered to be one, that allows Firefox users to jump to information messages that needed to be acted on. Of course, there are a lot of add ons that need not be included, but this shouldn't be a yes or no choice. there is no reason to have it be an all or nothing decision.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Roger Stewart <mailto:paganus2@gmail.com>

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:02 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in



Yes! We don't want NVDA to become bloatware! Leave the core as is and maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide what add on to add. I have the SPL add on installed. If you don't ever want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part of nvda? Same can be said for most add ons.

Roger











On 12/22/2017 5:55 PM, David Moore wrote:

I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either!

The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install.

I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students.

Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps.

The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob.

I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps.

Have a great one!

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From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in



There is no reason to have all add ons built in. there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included. the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on. Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another. Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it. it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did. Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.



I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com>

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in



Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.



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From: Josh Kennedy <mailto:joshknnd1982@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in



Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.





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