Re: I'm dissappointed

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>

I have not heard that presentation, but I agree with Rose Marie. As Joe Steincamp @rangerstation on Twitter pointed we'll never get an accurate representation of screen reader usage. He made some good points about this survey to me yesterday.

On 12/22/2017 11:39 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Sky,


I just finished listening to the presentation and the two guys did a wonderful job in making their point. We do need to spread the word about NVDA.




From: [] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Hello Gene. This is Sky.  In april of 2016, their was a discussion about NVDA and Employment on NVDA Con.  It was presented by two people, Dave Wiliams, and Sean Randal.  Below, is the url so you can listen to it.

From: [] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


The first question is who is it a good option for?  I don't know enough about various employment settings to know where it could be used to meet the needs well. 


At this point in its development, if it is well suited to use in many employment settings, I'll let others address the question of rehab agencies.  I don't know enough to discuss it.  All I can say is that I'm skeptical that NVDA is nearly as ready for general use in employment as it appears some people are assuming.  If I'm wrong, that's fine but someone with real knowledge about employment requirements would have to address the question. 


For example, say someone in a call center has to read a specific part of the screen with a certain command.  In JAWS, a frame could be designed to do that by any knowledgeable JAWS employment counselor on the work site.  Since NVDA doesn't have such a feature, someone would have to make a script for NVDA to do this.  This would require much more knowledge and I would think it would be much harder to get it done in a lot of or most cases.  I haven't done this for years and I'd have to review how but I created frames to allow someone to use a VPN efficiently with a medical transcription interface from home, using JAWS.  That requires some knowledge but I don't have any of the knowledge needed to do the same with NVDA.  NVDA simply isn't user definable and I would think that that is one of its greatest obstacles in terms of flexibility in employment situations. 


Those are my opinions, not as any sort of expert about any of this but I think some or many NVDA proponents have a significantly inflated view of the current state of NVDA as an on the job screen-reader.



----- Original Message -----

From: David Moore

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Hi Gene!

How do we educate the state rehabilitation agencies that NVDA is an option. Before my on line tutoring business, I was looking for a job. I asked my case worker about using NVDA at work. My case worker said that employers would not allow NVDA, and that they had hardly heard of NVDA, and that is not up to employment standards.

If my case worker thought that, I would assume that many agencies think that about NVDA.

Don’t we need to do presentations for the states like VFO does?

Simply, how do we get the word out there in the professional world that NVDA is a good option?

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10


From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


This discussion is really removed from reality.  Do a demonstration of what?  If an employer needs an employee to use a specific data base or other program that NVDA doesn't support, the demonstration will be worthless.  If the job just involves using standard Microsoft programs, a demonstration might accomplish something but many employers have specific programs they will allow and they won't allow others.  If you can find out in advance what programs are being used and that NVDA supports all those programs and if the employer will allow you to demonstrate, fine, but this discussion, as I said, is so removed from reality that it amounts to just emotional boosterism and that, if applied injudiciously will harm the reputation of NVDA, not help it. 




----- Original Message -----

From: David Moore

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:49 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


You like wise, Rosemarie!

David Moore

Somehow, we have to go to employers and do a demonstration of NVDA right there. I don’t know if they would let any person do that, or do they have to be from an organization.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10


From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Hi, David,


I see where you're coming from. I think if more employers would give NVDA a chance, they could save a lot of money that they could be using to update things like Microsoft office. If I had a job, I'd insist on using NVDA.


Merry Christmas to you and Traci.




From: [] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Hi all!

I have been using NVDA 80 percent of the time since 2015.

I can access a lot more controls on web pages, access TV Streaming web sites, use YouTube like a breeze, and a lot more.

NVDA can access the Win10 universal apps much better than the shark LOL!

I only use the Shark a few times a month to do some very specific tasks.

I want to emphasize that I cannot access a lot with the shark that I can access with NVDA. I have talked to many people about NVDA, and I have helped a few people use NVDA part of the time.

It is so hard to get people to install the add ons. So many are so stubborn and say they want to use a screen reader that has everything built in, instead of having to hunt all over the place for add ons.

I give them the web sites to find all of them, but they just go back to using the Shark, which really cannot access Edge at all yet, NVDA does much better in Google apps, like Google Docs, sheets, and forms.

NVDA works great in Edge. I can do what I need to do with Edge using NVDA. NVDA is so simple to install, it does not leave footprints all over your computer, it installs in a minute or so. The shark takes 15 minutes for me, NVDA is more stable than the later versions of the Shark, Audio ducking does not work in the Shark, NVDA keeps up much better with changes in Windows, I use many Win10 apps with NVDA, and on and on.

The word is getting out, though, because everyone I talk to who uses the Shark, says that they have heard of NVDA and know someone who uses it.

We really need to get NVDA to employers, so they can see just how great it is for work as well as at home.

NVDA really can enable someone to do their job in the work place. It is easier, because NVDA would install on their computer systems, I would think, better than the Shark. Somehow, we need to let state rehabilitation agencies, employers, the government, know just how great NVDA is.

VFO constantly goes around the country and shows off the Shark to employers, state agencies, and many professional organizations.

Somehow, we need to find out how we can have many NVDA conventions around the world where NVDA is being demonstrated to high up people and all kinds of professionals.

That is where VFO has the upper hand.

We need to get the word out about just how NVDA really could enable people to do their professional job, and not just use it at home.

Merry Christmas all, and have a special time with family and friends.


David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10


From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


I dropped the shark in 2010 April. I have not looked back since. I've tried to convince my co workers  at my job to use nvda but they say that the shark is better because nvda was not meant fo the work place. Um? Huh? No? I use nvda at my work to do stuff all the time. True it's an at home thing, but still.


Take care all and have a happy Friday


On Dec 22, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Gerardo Corripio <gera1027@...> wrote:


Yes I've used NVDA as my main screen reader since January2015, and it's coming along! I really like the fact that apart from having to buy Vocalizer, Eloquence o or other voices specifically made for it (it's definitely a lot more cheaper than the other screen reader, with each symthesizer costing an average USD$100 versus the nearly USD$800 and upwards of the others); NVDA updates when it has to without having to worry of the SMA, via AddOns, we CAN adapt NVDA to our usage/liking/personality.. So NVDA keep up the great work! and let's continue helping spreading the word out!

El 22/12/2017 a las 12:40 p.m., Angela Delicata escribió:

+1000! I wish I know it before: I am really happy with nvda; it is a wonderful screen reader.

If we think all they ask is a donation and they give us such a wonderful product... Isn't it fantastic?

Happy vacation to all.


Angela from Italy

Il 22/12/2017 19:12, Sky Mundell ha scritto:

I totally agree with you. Lets all promote the use of this terrific product!

From: [] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:47 AM
Subject: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi all. FYI the Webame survey 7 results out out. It’s a mixed bag. I’m dissappoited in NVDA useage. Its at 31.9 percent and that other screen reader I won’t talk about anymore is at 46 percent. All I’ll say is this. Spread the word about NVDA. I know a lot of you have adopted the use of it over the past year now that WINEyes is dead. Also if you can send NV Access a donation.

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