Re: I'm dissappointed


coffeekingms@hotmail.com
 

Hi

Havingbeen a member of the open source community and a member of  the wider user community of people who use windows and the like, there is a clear disconnect somewhere I the middle. The open source community of Linux and such spends its time bemoaning thelow user base while insisting that their day will come. The windows users meanwhile sit atop their user base, insisting that they’ve been right all long. NVDA sits somewhere in the middle. It is open source with some closed source bits, I think mainlymicrosoft librarieand possibly some braille drivers. It enjoys great popularity, but only because it runs atop windows. If it were another Linux project it would languish in obscurity. There would be users that use it, but they would be users who don’t mind setting up their systems from scratch. Even though Linux has advancedto the point where most users can use it, it has areas where it does not work well, and even when it does work well the wider blind community overlooks it. I don’t know why, either bcause the agencies deliberately overloo it or because it isn’t advertised on tv and social media and such. We could o on and on and on and o in circles about which is better and mypointisn’tto starta debate.Just to at tat with exceptions, the open source communityand the wider user community don’t communicate with each other. Open source is becoming more important bu only because large companies have realized they can do more with it than with closed source, not because it has suddenly gained popularity among users, most companies don’t  care what users like or don’t like unless it affectsthem. At least in my personal opinion.    Note that I am a user and my perspective is from a user. But I am also a … I suppose you’d call me a developer although I cannot write code.  I Have tried my hand at developing a Linux distribution.  It is hard. The actual development isn’t difficult usually although it can be depending on what you’re trying to do, but the hardest  bit is getting users to simply stop by and care. Most of them overlook you. That’s nice, now on to windows and mac and smartphones and the like. I’ll also not that my experiences I talked about are from the blind community of Linux and windows. The sighted community is completely different. There there’s a lot more intermingling. People whoo usea mix of windows and Linux depending on what they do. The blind community of Linux is very insular. Veryisolated. Not much affects it, and they can be very hard on new users who aren’t like them.

Sorry for the typos, I’m using m laptop keyboard and this thing has key travel issues. I think I’ve pressed a key only to find out later I haven’t.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

 

 

Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 9:55:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed
 
Microsoft has its most projects on github meanwhile. As you see, open source is becomming more and more important. Internet of things means cross platform communication. This will be the feature. It cannot be achieved by closed source project. I would never never never consider to close NVDA. Before that happens, many people would forg a copy and would continue to develop it open source...

I really start to ask myself, do people not see the advantages of such a community? Or do they missunderstand the comming trends?

Best
Adriani


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

> Am 24.12.2017 um 05:42 schrieb Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...>:
>
> Hmmm my opinion is that we should continue as we are but as we get used more and more especial in businesses, we may have to get some more help.
>
> What that means is unknown.
>
> At any rate its been made possible to stop any company, ie vfo or ms to take control of us say you must buy jaws and close us down.
>
> However if we are going to become a major thing we should start working with mainstream companies more and more.
>
> That may mean allowing some of our opensource bits to go away at least for business use.
>
> That could I guess develop into a payed for business version where we would have to get a part share in sales.
>
> Even if we do go closed source and get a business version even if we let vfo handle  some of that.
>
> We could do it in a way where there is still an opensource version which we control and which could go to developing countries and home users.
>
> Ofcause if there was a pro version then I'd buy it, we would need some way to regulate the price if we ever did.
>
> One thing we would have to do is have some sort of rule that states that anyone using our code would have to be complient with standards.
>
> If someone included an intercepter but then made it so our stuff would only run with an installed driver then it would defeat the purpose.
>
>
>
>
>> On 24/12/2017 9:09 a.m., Carlos wrote:
>> Hello All:
>>
>>     This discussion is going in the direction of at some point NV Access handing control of NVDA to Microsoft.
>>
>>     There are many issues that go into maintaining a software project.  Keeping the software up to date, being able to offer some sort of technical support mechanism for users, having a wide variety of code contributions to draw from, and of course community participation!
>>
>>     That's why so many open source project fail in their first two years!  So, the time has come for NV Access to decide if they will continue going at it alone?  Or, if for the good of the project turn it over to an organization that has all the bases covered!
>>
>>     Unfortunatly! A community based project can only go so far as its ability to provide all the elements needed to keep the project active and vibrant!
>>
>>     Good exmaples of this are projects like LibreOffice and The Apache Foundation.
>>
>>     So! The NVDA developers and the community as a whole really do need to think about the direction of the project.  And, if they are going to be able to keep it growing in its current state?
>>
>>     Have a very happy and thoughtful 2018!
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 12/23/2017 11:30 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
>>> I second that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angela Delicata
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 11:25 AM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed
>>>
>>> This would be the greatest solution.
>>>
>>>
>>> Il 23/12/2017 20:22, Rui Fontes ha scritto:
>>>> I think the better solution is each NVDA country community having some
>>>> kind of support center, by phone or by mail...
>>>>
>>>> At least in Portugal we serve as a kind of support center for NVDA...
>>>> by phone, Skype or mail...
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Rui Fontes
>>>> Tiflotecnia, Lda.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Às 18:55 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
>>>>> Well nvda  does not use a traditional support line, the email list is
>>>>> support for most part.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs run
>>>>> which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech support call
>>>>> centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing support but its not a
>>>>> full support group.
>>>>>
>>>>> Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not
>>>>> sure how we can fix this shortfall.
>>>>>
>>>>> Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app for
>>>>> nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone and
>>>>> dial support.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the thing, a number of  devs and a few are payed but most of
>>>>> us are not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support
>>>>> for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and
>>>>> email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is
>>>>> always the best especially if the computer does not work right.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., susan@... wrote:
>>>>>> I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my
>>>>>> students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to adopt
>>>>>> NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training myself
>>>>>> through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started training my
>>>>>> student and implementing it with his school work. We have found what
>>>>>> works one day does not always work the next day. What has been
>>>>>> frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech support for NVDA on
>>>>>> the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting. We have
>>>>>> very limited hours in a school day to complete our training and work
>>>>>> with students with visual impairments. Their curriculum extends
>>>>>> beyond the core curriculum as we all know and efficiency with
>>>>>> support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS with my student and
>>>>>> it has been seemless and working well. I really want to adopt NVDA
>>>>>> but it has been very frustrating. We teach our students to
>>>>>> brainstorm and contact tech support when needed but NVDA does not
>>>>>> make it easy for our students to do this. Our students are the
>>>>>> future of NVDA as future screen readers. Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.
>>>> http://www.avg.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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>
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