Re: I'm dissappointed

Sandra Pilz


I'm a bit late but have only read the discussion now.

I have been using NVDA nearly exclusivelely since 2012 for work and also privately.

For the new job I started this year, I can only use NVDA, because JAWS will crash when I log into the web interface I am required to use.

However, I agree with Gene. JAWS is more easily configurable by the user. You can label graphics, you can assign window classes and see if that makes a program work more smoothly with NVDA, you can assign application specific hotkeys. I am not so sure if the JAWS frames feature still works so well under Windows 10. I just tried it recently without success.

Also, for me the question is not only can I do something with a screen reader, but also how quickly can I do what I need to do. One example for me is the text analysing feature of JAWS in MS Word. I think it helps a lot when writing a document and checking the formatting. I can do this with NVDA, too, but it takes a lot longer. The JAWS text analyser or whatever they call it just checks the document for me and allows me to
see where unexpected formatting or characters have been found. I then can check whether they are intended or not and make corrections. And it is so much quicker to do it that way than to read the entire document with NVDA reporting all attributes selectable in the document dialogue of NVDA. And additionally, the latter method is so monotonous that there is the risk of not catching all of the formatting problems.

I love using NVDA and think it can do a lot more than users of other screen readers may be aware of. But in a workplace setting, I might still recommend JAWS, because it is easier for people who are not programmers to adjust it so it can work with applications the way they need it to, and because tech support is available.

What would be the legal status for NVDA extensions written by a third party to make a specific program more accessible? If the would they be allowed to sell them? probably not, because NVDA is free. What would be the incentive for them to develop these extensions for rarely used software if they can only bill the hours once? With JAWS it's very clear, assistive tech companies can write scripts and sell them... That doesn't make JAWS better of course, I'm just wondering if this could be another reason why JAWS is chosen for the workplace more often than NVDA.

I think thanks to object navigation, NVDA could have a superior feature to JAWS' being able to read frames. It would be cool if we were able to specify a screen object, and then tell NVDA what we want it to do with the object: read it whenever content changes, leftclick or rightclick it and probably more. Frames in JAWS only worked if screen resolution didn't change. If the actions were tied to an object and not a frame thus not dependent on its dimensions on the screen, the configuration could work for different people with different screen resolutions.



Am 23.12.2017 um 23:52 schrieb Gene:

You can't label graphics, you can't create frames and there is no adjustment of the screen echo.  There is also no way to skip baqck and forward by line when the screen echo is set to all or when using read to end and have speech continue.  If these abilities were present, as far as I know, that would make NVDA as user configurable as JAWS and Window-eyes.  These are important lacks in NVDA.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

This is not correct. NVDA is well adjustable, even much easier than jaws.

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 23.12.2017 um 03:47 schrieb Gene <gsasner@...>:

You can't do what I could do when I used Pine with a shell account a long time ago.  I didn't need to create any frames or scripts.  All I had to do was set the screen echo of JAWS to all, open a message, and then use the jaws skip line wile reading feature, right shift, to very quickly jump to the start of the message body.  Even if NVDA reads such material when it appears on screen, you either listen to everything or nothing and use the tedious read by line screen review option.  Hardly a convenient or reasonable way to go through thirty e-mails. 
Like it or not, NVDA isn't user definable.  You can't label graphics and you can't create frames.  These are serious deficiencies even if many of us don't need such options.
And you can't set the screen echo to all and then do what I did, as I described.  This may be an important ability for some users.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


I concur. I  firmly believe that NVDA can do most, if not all, the things more expensive programs can do. With some very rare exceptions. There are still some apps that require jfw with specific scripts to be usable, but as time goes on those apps will dwindle until there are none left. But for 99 percent of people, NVDA can work for them, either alone or in combination with narrator, which has gotten quite good. I don’t really set much store by such presentations, as the few I’ve bothered to listen to gloss over the free options as if they’re not there, are not worth mentioning or aren’t good enough. This applies to NVDA as well as open source operating systems like Linux. I have not listened to the presentation people are talking about, so I don’t want to ruffle any feathers, but as a rule I don’t listen to them. They tend to unilaterally insist that only the paid apps are worth using. Except for the NVDA podcasts. Those are great, although I don’t follow those either. I’m just a user. I use NVDA on a daily basis and have found very little that it can’t do. If it can’t navigate an app by the usual methods, tab, shift tab, arrows, then it can by either touch, if you have a touch screen or object navigation.Even when I was using Linux full time I would keep up with NVDA’s progress, and NVDA is what eventually brought me back to using windows again.


Kendell Clark


Sent from Mail for Windows 10


From: <> on behalf of Don H <lmddh50@...>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:18:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed
I think that NVDA is just as good or better than any other screen
reader.  I think the issue for businesses is the fact that NVDA is open
source thus in their minds less secure.

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