Re: I'm dissappointed

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>

Yes indeed this happened to somebody I knew and all credit to the PC world techs, they got the computer sorted and screenreader running in a day. However as was pointed out by the support team, this issue is in fact reaching epedemic proportions and its costing companies who do warranty fixes a lot of money, and they may in the future charge for fixing what they see as operator errors.
You can see their point.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Huber" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi Kendell:
I had this happen to me a few months ago. the voice told me that if I
wanted to stop that message from repeating over and over again, I had
to call the number on my screen. Since I could not shut down
properly, I did a forced shutdown. I was scared that somehow, my
computer had been hacked, but I was assured, by a friend of mine, who
is a retired IT person, that if I didn't call the number, nothing
could happen. But, wouldn't you know it, only a couple of weeks
later, a friend of mine had her computer hacked because she called the
number. She couldn't believe she'd been scammed since the message on
her screen said that it was from Microsoft, but I told her that some
of those crooks use the name of Microsoft to fool their victums into
thinking they are legitimate.

Kevin Huber

On 12/28/17, <> wrote:

I don’t know a lot about NVDA remote but in my experience, you have to
deliberately connect to a server, unless of course you select the default
which is to forward things through, which I would not advise.
Not because t spivey and his other developer are not trustworthy but because
it’s an easy target for people who might try to crack the site or get into
remote sessions. Always set up a dedicated pc or at least a pc that someone
you know and trust owns that you can use for stuff like that. I think it
ultimately depends like someone else said the quality of the person on the
other end. I have had people from other countries try to tell me my computer
has reported to them, them being a fake Microsoft, that it is sick with a
virus and for just $99.99 they can cure it. Clear scam but it can work on
people. I’ve seen it work. I don’t know if these will work anymore with the
advent of windows defender being built in, it might if the person on the
other end says the virus has disabled it. They’ve gotten quite clever. I ran
across a bot that used windows own built in voice to give the standard you
may have a virus prompt. That could lure people into thinking it is
legitimate. I didn’t fall for it because I don’t use narrator’s default
voice and speech settings, but someone who uses the defaults could fall for
it. This in windows 10, it used ms david for the prompt.


Kendell Clark

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From: <> on behalf of Jason White via
Groups.Io <>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 7:40:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I would argue that providing technical support is an under-valued
profession. I've encountered technical support staff who clearly don't know
enough to solve my problem, and if they did know, unfortunately they would
be in a "better" (more prestigious, more highly paid, etc.) job elsewhere.

In the commercial hardware and software world, the usual solution is to have
multiple layers of technical support, so that the easy cases can be dealt
with at the lower levels and the harder cases escalated upward. In my
experience, this often doesn't work well if you have one of the harder
cases. I don't know whether anyone has developed a model that works
effectively and which can scale.

Community support (as with free and open-source software projects) can be
very effective in practice, as this and similar mailing lists have shown
over the years. The more that the user knows, of course, the more benefits
tend to be gained.

-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I'm keeping away from this subject in case anyone was wondering. I help out
people local to me. In the main its a voice call or a quick visit in the
main. Nine times out of ten its faulty training or lack of training by
others that are the issue.
Also however I have to give credit where it is due. A much maligned company
here in the UK for simply selling boxes, called PC World have always gone
the extra mile for most people who have encountered problems due to their
naivety or disability. They did a telephone restore of a system for a friend
of mine recently and managed to get the screenreader working as well.
It really depends on the quality of the tech person obviously.

I myself have not used the remote system for nvda in anger and would not
feel happy about doing so without a lot of testing first, mainly due to my
own shortcomings.
Tech support is not easy. Its a bit like solving a criminal case. You often
get bad or no info about what happened and have to somehow deduce the best
way to proceed to preserve data etc.
So when people do say tech support is expensive, yes it is if its any
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I'm not planning to offer such a service. I was saying that just because
NVDA is free, that that doesn't mean that technical support should be
assumed to be free. Some people may offer free support and some may offer
paid support. But unless this is discussed, people may assume that
is discussing a free support system because NVDA is free.

----- Original Message -----
From: Pascal Lambert
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi All,

Gene’s offer is a sound one. I will be the first one to take advantage of
it. Please let me know when will you start offering your service.



From: [] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

That's hardly the first suggestion on this list and I doubt on other lists.
At times, this suggestion is made because people don't know the answer or
because some problems are difficult to solve by back and forth messages by
e-mail. Someone remoting into the computer may solve some kinds of
much faster and perhaps problems that wouldn't be solved on lists either
because of lack of knowledge or the difficulty in solving some problems by
exchanging messages.

But since peoples' experiences, as they report them, vary widely when they
call, evidently some techs are competent and some aren't, I would caution
people that it is better to ask about a problem here first and, those who
know enough, when they call the disability line, should have the tech tell
them what is going to be done so that if something doesn't sound correct,
can be not approved.

But I was talking about technical support offered by the NVDA community in
some way, in my last message. I enjoy answering questions and solving
things on lists. If I had something like a shift, where I received phone
calls for a certain number of hours a day, that would be more like a job
I might want to be paid for it. Because of possible limitations in
finances, I might not ask to be paid nearly what my services would be
but I might still want to be paid something, five or seven dollars an hour
and that would be a very cheap price, considering how much good technical
support is worth. That's not even minimum wage in the United States.


----- Original Message -----

From: Lino Morales

Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 6:48 AM


Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I agree. Trying to trouble shoot things regardless of what screen reader on
any version of WIN is the NO.1 priority. The number one song ahem
as of late here and on the WIN 10 year has been call the MS disability help
desk. It seems like that’s the first thing as of late that gets spouted off
the mouth. This is my chief complaint. Its getting old. That’s why their
lists like this. Somebody is bound to know the answers to XYZZ question.
Help desk or taking PC or laptop in to a local shop should be a last

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:56 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Perhaps, but a fundamental question as barely been discussed, if at all.
NVDA is free. Does that mean services related to it should be free and to
what extent? If you are going to expect someone to do something like a
that is, sit around and wait for calls a certain number of hours a day,
people might be willing to do that. That doesn't mean that it is
to assume that enough people will be willing to do so to build a corps of
enough people around the world. Knowing how to teach and troubleshoot well
are valuable skills and, depending on the problems presented, the solutions
or what is taught may take time and effort. Why would peoples' skills and
knowledge be assumed to be available for free? That devalues both. I
writing instructions and helping with problems on an e-mail list where I
control what I write and how often and when I look at list mail when I
Sitting Waiting for a phone to ring, being at the call of anyone who
to call at any time for a number of hours a day, is a lot more like work,
at least to me.


----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 9:59 PM


Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Why don't we use trained volunteers who would have to pass a
certification and let them wait by the phone or skype for tech support.
People who are advanced users of nvda could be people who could do this.
This would give blind people who don't have anything to do somthing to do.

Brian Sackrider

On 12/23/2017 2:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Hmmm how would one go about doing this.

Firstly you would need some way to handle this.

I guess if it was all done via skype it could be done but I certainly
do not have time to sit round on a waiting for calls on nvda.

For mail ie email we have this list for global support and the tech
lists at least in new zealand do handle nvda questions and issues if
they get posted there.

There is the blind organisation I am in and they have an accessibility
centre of sorts that covers all support I suspose nvda to but who knows.

Its an organisation so like all of them they want you to use jaws but
who knows a lot of that has changed a lot.

On 24/12/2017 8:22 a.m., Rui Fontes wrote:
I think the better solution is each NVDA country community having
some kind of support center, by phone or by mail...

At least in Portugal we serve as a kind of support center for NVDA...
by phone, Skype or mail...


Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.

Às 18:55 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well nvda does not use a traditional support line, the email list
is support for most part.

I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs run
which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech support
call centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing support but its
not a full support group.

Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not
sure how we can fix this shortfall.

Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app for
nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone and
dial support.

Here is the thing, a number of devs and a few are payed but most of
us are not.

Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support
for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and
email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is
always the best especially if the computer does not work right.

On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., wrote:
I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my
students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to adopt
NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training myself
through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started training my
student and implementing it with his school work. We have found
what works one day does not always work the next day. What has been
frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech support for NVDA on
the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting. We have
very limited hours in a school day to complete our training and
work with students with visual impairments. Their curriculum
extends beyond the core curriculum as we all know and efficiency
with support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS with my student
and it has been seemless and working well. I really want to adopt
NVDA but it has been very frustrating. We teach our students to
brainstorm and contact tech support when needed but NVDA does not
make it easy for our students to do this. Our students are the
future of NVDA as future screen readers. Thoughts?



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