Re: I'm dissappointed


Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Kevin,

I did do a forced shutdown before calling the microsoft disability line. That's great advice.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Huber
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 8:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi:

These scammers know that if they can get one out of ten or twenty, or even fifty, They can make a killing, so it is worth it to them.

If they are claiming to be Microsoft or some company like that and you are even a little suspicious, my advice would be to get rid of them by unplugging the computer or doing a forced shutdown, then call Microsoft Support themselves, tell them about what you just experienced and ask if they are aware of such a virus.
Kevin Huber

On 1/3/18, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Keven,

I had that happen to me not too long ago. I had to call the microsoft
disability line and the person there helped me get rid of that pop-up
window. Yes, some of these crooks do claim to be from microsoft. I
guess they have nothing better to do with their time except to scam
innocent victims.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Kevin Huber
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi Kendell:
I had this happen to me a few months ago. the voice told me that if I
wanted to stop that message from repeating over and over again, I had
to call the number on my screen. Since I could not shut down
properly, I did a forced shutdown. I was scared that somehow, my
computer had been hacked, but I was assured, by a friend of mine, who
is a retired IT person, that if I didn't call the number, nothing
could happen. But, wouldn't you know it, only a couple of weeks
later, a friend of mine had her computer hacked because she called the
number. She couldn't believe she'd been scammed since the message on
her screen said that it was from Microsoft, but I told her that some
of those crooks use the name of Microsoft to fool their victums into thinking they are legitimate.

Kevin Huber

On 12/28/17, coffeekingms@hotmail.com <coffeekingms@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi

I don’t know a lot about NVDA remote but in my experience, you have
to deliberately connect to a server, unless of course you select the
default which is to forward things through nvdaremove.com, which I
would not advise.
Not because t spivey and his other developer are not trustworthy but
because it’s an easy target for people who might try to crack the
site or get into remote sessions. Always set up a dedicated pc or at
least a pc that someone you know and trust owns that you can use for
stuff like that. I think it ultimately depends like someone else said
the quality of the person on the other end. I have had people from
other countries try to tell me my computer has reported to them, them
being a fake Microsoft, that it is sick with a virus and for just
$99.99 they can cure it. Clear scam but it can work on people. I’ve
seen it work. I don’t know if these will work anymore with the advent
of windows defender being built in, it might if the person on the
other end says the virus has disabled it. They’ve gotten quite
clever. I ran across a bot that used windows own built in voice to
give the standard you may have a virus prompt. That could lure people
into thinking it is legitimate. I didn’t fall for it because I don’t
use narrator’s default voice and speech settings, but someone who
uses the defaults could fall for it. This in windows 10, it used ms david for the prompt.

Thanks

Kendell Clark





Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook



________________________________
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Jason
White via Groups.Io <jason=jasonjgw.net@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 7:40:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I would argue that providing technical support is an under-valued
profession. I've encountered technical support staff who clearly
don't know enough to solve my problem, and if they did know,
unfortunately they would be in a "better" (more prestigious, more
highly paid, etc.) job elsewhere.

In the commercial hardware and software world, the usual solution is
to have multiple layers of technical support, so that the easy cases
can be dealt with at the lower levels and the harder cases escalated
upward. In my experience, this often doesn't work well if you have
one of the harder cases. I don't know whether anyone has developed a
model that works effectively and which can scale.

Community support (as with free and open-source software projects)
can be very effective in practice, as this and similar mailing lists
have shown over the years. The more that the user knows, of course,
the more benefits tend to be gained.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I'm keeping away from this subject in case anyone was wondering. I
help out people local to me. In the main its a voice call or a quick
visit in the main. Nine times out of ten its faulty training or lack
of training by others that are the issue.
Also however I have to give credit where it is due. A much maligned
company here in the UK for simply selling boxes, called PC World have
always gone the extra mile for most people who have encountered
problems due to their naivety or disability. They did a telephone
restore of a system for a friend of mine recently and managed to get
the screenreader working as well.
It really depends on the quality of the tech person obviously.

I myself have not used the remote system for nvda in anger and would
not feel happy about doing so without a lot of testing first, mainly
due to my own shortcomings.
Tech support is not easy. Its a bit like solving a criminal case.
You often get bad or no info about what happened and have to somehow
deduce the best way to proceed to preserve data etc.
So when people do say tech support is expensive, yes it is if its
any good.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


I'm not planning to offer such a service. I was saying that just
because NVDA is free, that that doesn't mean that technical support
should be assumed to be free. Some people may offer free support and
some may offer paid support. But unless this is discussed, people
may assume that everyone is discussing a free support system because
NVDA is free.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Pascal Lambert
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 8:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Hi All,

Gene’s offer is a sound one. I will be the first one to take
advantage of it. Please let me know when will you start offering
your service.

Blessings

Pascal



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 9:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



That's hardly the first suggestion on this list and I doubt on other
lists.
At times, this suggestion is made because people don't know the
answer or because some problems are difficult to solve by back and
forth messages by e-mail. Someone remoting into the computer may
solve some kinds of problems much faster and perhaps problems that
wouldn't be solved on lists either because of lack of knowledge or
the difficulty in solving some problems by exchanging messages.



But since peoples' experiences, as they report them, vary widely when
they call, evidently some techs are competent and some aren't, I
would caution people that it is better to ask about a problem here
first and, those who know enough, when they call the disability line,
should have the tech tell them what is going to be done so that if
something doesn't sound correct, it can be not approved.



But I was talking about technical support offered by the NVDA
community in some way, in my last message. I enjoy answering
questions and solving things on lists. If I had something like a
shift, where I received phone calls for a certain number of hours a
day, that would be more like a job and I might want to be paid for
it. Because of possible limitations in finances, I might not ask to
be paid nearly what my services would be worth, but I might still
want to be paid something, five or seven dollars an hour and that
would be a very cheap price, considering how much good technical
support is worth. That's not even minimum wage in the United States.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Lino Morales

Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 6:48 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



I agree. Trying to trouble shoot things regardless of what screen
reader on any version of WIN is the NO.1 priority. The number one
song ahem suggestion as of late here and on the WIN 10 year has been
call the MS disability help desk. It seems like that’s the first
thing as of late that gets spouted off the mouth. This is my chief complaint.
Its getting old. That’s why their lists like this. Somebody is bound
to know the answers to XYZZ question.
Help desk or taking PC or laptop in to a local shop should be a last
resort.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



Perhaps, but a fundamental question as barely been discussed, if at all.
NVDA is free. Does that mean services related to it should be free
and to what extent? If you are going to expect someone to do
something like a job, that is, sit around and wait for calls a
certain number of hours a day, some people might be willing to do
that. That doesn't mean that it is reasonable to assume that enough
people will be willing to do so to build a corps of enough people
around the world. Knowing how to teach and troubleshoot well are
valuable skills and, depending on the problems presented, the
solutions or what is taught may take time and effort. Why would
peoples' skills and knowledge be assumed to be available for free?
That devalues both. I enjoy writing instructions and helping with
problems on an e-mail list where I control what I write and how often
and when I look at list mail when I want.
Sitting Waiting for a phone to ring, being at the call of anyone who
decides to call at any time for a number of hours a day, is a lot
more like work, at least to me.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 9:59 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



Why don't we use trained volunteers who would have to pass a
certification and let them wait by the phone or skype for tech support.
People who are advanced users of nvda could be people who could do this.
This would give blind people who don't have anything to do somthing
to do.

Brian Sackrider


On 12/23/2017 2:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Hmmm how would one go about doing this.

Firstly you would need some way to handle this.

I guess if it was all done via skype it could be done but I
certainly do not have time to sit round on a waiting for calls on nvda.

For mail ie email we have this list for global support and the tech
lists at least in new zealand do handle nvda questions and issues if
they get posted there.

There is the blind organisation I am in and they have an
accessibility centre of sorts that covers all support I suspose nvda
to but who knows.

Its an organisation so like all of them they want you to use jaws
but who knows a lot of that has changed a lot.




On 24/12/2017 8:22 a.m., Rui Fontes wrote:
I think the better solution is each NVDA country community having
some kind of support center, by phone or by mail...

At least in Portugal we serve as a kind of support center for NVDA...
by phone, Skype or mail...

Regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:55 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well nvda does not use a traditional support line, the email list
is support for most part.

I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs
run which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech
support call centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing
support but its not a full support group.

Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not
sure how we can fix this shortfall.

Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app
for nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone
and dial support.

Here is the thing, a number of devs and a few are payed but most
of us are not.

Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support
for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and
email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is
always the best especially if the computer does not work right.




On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., susan@cantos.us wrote:
I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my
students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to
adopt NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training
myself through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started
training my student and implementing it with his school work. We
have found what works one day does not always work the next day.
What has been frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech
support for NVDA on the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting.
We have very limited hours in a school day to complete our
training and work with students with visual impairments. Their
curriculum extends beyond the core curriculum as we all know and
efficiency with support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS
with my student and it has been seemless and working well. I
really want to adopt NVDA but it has been very frustrating. We
teach our students to brainstorm and contact tech support when
needed but NVDA does not make it easy for our students to do this.
Our students are the future of NVDA as future screen readers.
Thoughts?




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