Re: say copy selected text


Gene
 

It has no way except in applications that use browse mode.
 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, February 05, 2018 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

From what I know, nvda has a way to announce what has been copied to the clipboard.  If it is aware of this, then it could be made to say that something has been copied.  Whether or not it knows when something has been copied from the clipboard is another thing and I don't know if nvda is aware of this or not.  If it is, then making this a part of nvda core shouldn't be too hard to do.

Roger









On 2/5/2018 3:56 PM, Arlene wrote:

No kidding.  Yes there are other addins that you can take as your choice. But the say copy, cut and paste should be there just like all the other screen readers.  I like how you can get the addins as you like. But the cut, copy and paste should be there.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: February-05-18 7:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

I agree if Jaws and other screen readers can properly do this so should NVDA

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 7:50 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

This message is long but it states and explains in detail why copy and paste is an important feature, and even more so with the poorly designed, paternalistic, read contents of clipboard feature available now. 

 

Where else do you find it very slow and buggy?  From my use, it isn't very slow and buggy much of the time.  I found one program, free video converter, where it prevents pasting of an address into the program.  It says pasted but the address is still the last one you used when not using the plugin.  You said it had problems in Word.  I don't have Word.  But in Notepad and Wordpad, using XP, there are no problems.  There are no problems copying and pasting in My Computer's folders and files list, nor in Windows Explorer.  When copying files to the clipboard, it is slow in reporting that something is copied.  But I'd rather have a delay, I'm not sure how long yours willl be.  I'm using an old slow machine and on mine, the delay may be a second or one and one half seconds.  Well worth it when compared with this possibility.  You aren't using the add on.  You copied and pasted a lot of files or even five or six from place to place.  You go to copy and paste more files to the same or a different location.  Since you aren't using the plugin, you get no indication about whether files have been copied to the clipboard or pasted.  You find, to your considerable annoyance, after pasting, that you have pasted the previous files to another location or that you now have duplicates of every file you previously pasted because copy didn't work even though you used the correct command and entered it correctly as far as keyboard technique is concerned.  You now have to delete the files from where they have just been copied, tgo back, copy the files you do want again, and then paste again.  If you are using clipspeak, this won't happen. 

 

As I said, this is an important feature.  People try to fob this off by saying, you can check what you have copied to the clipboard by using the speak contents of clipboard command, available in NVDA.  That's fine for small amounts of text.  But the clipboard feature wants to be smarter than you are.  It is designed not to speak larger amounts of ttext, only telling the number of characters.  Great design!  What if I want to copy a large amount of text and I just copied another large amount of text and pasted it previously.  How is knowing the number of characters going to help if it's one thousand three hundred characters the previous time and one thousand one hundred twenty characters the second time?  Yes, if you make a point of remembering the previous number you'll know if copying occurred.  But who should have to do this?  This is 2017.  This is the equivalent of a crank starter on a model T Ford.  And, though very unlikely, the number of characters might be the same or differ only by a few numbers such as one thousand two hundred fifty five and one thousand two hundred fifty two.  Or it may be more, two thousand three hundred twenty five.  Unless you really make an effort to remember the first number, you may not realize that the second number is different or you may not be sure.  In addition, when you copy files or folders to the clipboard, you are told something like no text on clipboard.  That's really helpful in teling you what files /and or folders you have pasted. 

 

If these levels of disfunction and poor design are acceptable in this feature, then why isn't a certain amount of inaccuracy acceptable in copying and pasting?  And I see no evidence that such is necessary based on past experience with JAWS and System Access to go. 

 

In short, the read contents of clipboard should be redesigned and should read everything that's there.  Programmers should not assume what is best for the user in a case like this.  It's paternalistic.  All the reader has to do to stop reading is press control, as in all other cases where speech is occurring.  As I recall, the excuse for not having the feature work that way is that the reader probably won't want to hear extended text.  Fine.  So let the reader press control. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, February 05, 2018 3:53 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

Yes, I did wonder though many years ago  Dolphin had this in its novice mode
and it seemed to actually be reliable in what it said, but of course I never
did actually do exhaustive tests.

Besides, in those days most screenreaders used display chain drivers and it
may well be that it could be detected by some subtle change in the screen
content.
 The clipspeak is very slow and buggy, sadly though in most cases it does
work. Fails in Goldwave and creates spurious memory errors in some versions
of word.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text


> The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when it was
> first being looked at, we couldn't actually know whether text had been
> cut,
> copied or pasted etc.  All we could do was detect that control+c had been
> pressed and know that is GENERALLY used for copy.  We didn't want to tell
> the user something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the
> "Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard preferences
> NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that instance.
>
> The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste, select all
> etc.  It does make an effort to report this intelligently.  I recall a
> conversation with someone recently who said it is now more possible to
> accurately tell what has happened (text has been cut, a file has been
> copied, etc).  If that is the case, then it potentially could be
> considered
> to be built in.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Quentin.
>
> On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <
> bglists@...> wrote:
>
>> Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its
>> not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations.
>> There
>> was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to
>> malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I
>> uninstalled
>> it.
>> I have always said it should be designed in as a novice mode bit of help,
>> but at the time I think it was thought too hard to make it take into
>> account all the instances and get the indication correct.
>> This is one to bring up again on the add ons list I'd imagine.
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin" <kleeva5@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:38 PM
>> Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text
>>
>>
>> How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other
>> like commands when I copy, cut or paste!
>>
>> E-mail is golden!!!
>> Kevin Lee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
> www.nvaccess.org
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess
>



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