Re: Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018
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Rosemarie Chavarria
Hi, Joseph,
I agree with the others here. I think trying to do a text tutorial is asking too much. I personally prefer audio tutorials over text. You have enough on your plate with your schooling and everything else you do. Thanks so much for all that you do for us.
Rosemarie
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:36 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018
Hi Joseph! I totally agree with what you are saying. People get so used to one person doing everything, then their expectations for that one person get far too high. If we want a written version of the tutorial, then let us start working on it. I am so grateful and happy with the audio version. I am afraid that this NVDA group, and all the demands will cause you to have to leave altogether. We sure do not want that. It is always a few people having to do it all, even in my church. That is too bad, that people just sit back and wait for someone else to do what they want, instead of doing it themselves. I am so sorry, Joseph, that people rely on you too much. David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: ely.r@...
Joseph, I fully support your view on this. As NVDA largely supports those of us who are blind or visually impaired, The your audio version makes the Tutorial in MP3 available to the widest user profile. I can't imagine the time you put into the production. I hope that others know that you didn't just sit down and start recording off the top of your head. The material is far too well organized and your examples to well selected and described to not have taken you untold hours of pre-production. A text version would allow one to cut and paste a personal set of reminders, but in no way, should that fall on you. I can also understand that you would not be comfortable with less than an exact accurate copy of your work. Though you did not copyright the Tutorial, which you might have elected to do. Nor did you offer to sell it, though I, for one, would have gladly paid.
I suggest to this group that volunteers could use this forum to create a free transcription Service, divide up the tutorial with each person taking on sections to produce in a common text format. Others might serve as an editorial board to proof and finalize the text version to be submitted to you for approval.
When I was a grad student, I barely had time to keep up with my studies. I would never had time to do what you do for NVDA and for this list.
Rick
Dr. Rick Ely TVI, Vision Consultant 451 Rocky Hill Road Florence, MA 01062 &413() 727-3038
-----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018
Hi, The user guide is the text version at the moment, and no, I won't be able to transcribe the tutorial set on my own. There is an additional, important condition to be met: the community must demand it. I want to see the community wanting this; I want to see the community REALLY wanting this to happen; I want to see the community rise up to do it; I want to get a firm promise from the community that they'll take care of this with highest of standards. Yes, I'm setting the bar really high on this for a number of reasons: 1. Initiated and driven by the community: the era where you can just rely on one person to do all sorts of things is coming to a close. In fact, we should have left that era a long time ago. I believe that one way to move forward is to let the community take care of itself when it is time to do so (after being nurtured by leaders), hence my condition above regarding text transcripts. I do know that the community can go above and beyond what I did and can produce higher quality tutorials (complete with text transcripts), hence the high quality requirement; but it won't work if the community doesn't rise up to do this and other huge projects on its own. 2. Passing the torch to the next group of leaders: as noted a few weeks ago, my active time with the community is slowly coming to a close. I believe this is a great opportunity to find and teach the next group of leaders, and one way to do so is giving them something to practice their skills, and leading a huge project from start to finish is a good exercise. This is one of the reasons why I don't involve myself a lot with NVDACon planning recently, because I do know that current organizers can do a much better job at organizing this gathering. Same could be set about transcriptions: although some guidance is needed in the beginning, I believe that the community is more than ready to tackle this from start to finish: producing a high quality text transcription of the tutorial set. 3. Personal: I carry out some important community duties on top of being a student and a speech and debate competitor (with trophies under my belt, including several first place finishes and being qualified to go to national tournaments). If you thought I am just an NVDA Expert because I can answer questions with detailed guesses at midnight or seem to possess encyclopedic knowledge about NVDA source code, I'd like you to sincerely think again, taking into consideration who I really am: a student volunteer. Given that academics takes highest of highest of priorities, I dare not go through another project that'll drain me (this is the biggest regret I have about producing the audio tutorial set when I should have been taking breaks). To be blunt (sorry for coming across as too harsh): I usually don't say this in public, but I believe it must be said before it is too late: an accomplishment without a spark and a flame is nothing. That is, if you just wish for things to happen without acting on it, it would have been better to not wish it in the first place. One of the reasons why I felt burnt out from this community (especially during tutorial set production) is people's tendency to ask without acting on that wish, and a persistent attitude that one must wait for a savior to give guidance without taking the initiative to think progress and search for things on one's own. And I'm afraid that either I have contributed to this problem, or that we are not heeding this and similar criticisms. Thus, before we go any further (such as downloading the book format one cannot read right now), I sincerely advise you to heed this criticism for once, because without doing so, we won't see much progress; I think it would be helpful for us (as a community) to assess what we're doing, our attitudes, and what we need to do in the future, so that we can be a much better community: a community where people can answer each other with more confidence. Hope this helps. I do know that my post may come across as harsh, and may not have answered your questions. But I believe that there are more important matters to think about, more important than text transcription of Welcome to NVDA 2018 that'll have profound effect on this community and beyond. Cheers, Joseph
-----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis L Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018
will a text version be created? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick" <softwarethatworks@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018
> What I fail to understand is, if you do not have access to software or a > device that supports Daisy format, why you would download the Daisy format > of the tutorial. It's like buying Vinyl records when you do not have a > turntable and only have a CD player. It's just stupid. The tutorial from > Joseph's site is in MP3 format and is great for media players. The Daisy > format is for people with "Daisy players. Period. Choose the format that > works best for your situation. > > Rick > > -----Original Message----- > From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun > Everiss > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:34 PM > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io > Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018 > > Well if they are numbered fine I have actually resorted to my media player > to do the reading. > > Ofcause due to structure daisy book files can be in little bits to. > > > > > On 10/02/2018 11:33 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote: >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I did find them as mp3 files. I don't have a device like the victor >> stream or plex-talk to be able to jump from section to section. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of >> Joseph Lee >> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:23 PM >> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io >> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA >> 2018 >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> The audio recordings are in mp3 format, which may explain why this >> isn't working. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Joseph >> >> >> >> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria >> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:16 PM >> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA >> 2018 >> >> >> >> Hi, Joseph, >> >> >> >> I'm not able to read the daisy format of the tutorial. Do you have to >> have a special player or is this a word document? >> >> >> >> Rosemarie >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee >> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 9:24 AM >> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >> Subject: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018 >> >> >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> >> >> Thanks to AccessiDocs project from Pennsylvania Council of the Blind, >> an audio DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018 tutorial set is now >> available >> from: >> >> http://www.josephsl.net/files/nvda18/DB-Welcome_to_NVDA_2018-by-Joseph >> _lee.z >> ip >> >> >> >> The DAISY book is a bit out of date, but for the most part, it is up >> to date. >> >> >> >> Also, a UK-based charity named BCAB has offered to distribute this >> tutorial set on physical media for a fee. >> >> >> >> Enjoy. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Joseph >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > >
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