Re: Phasing out of 7


What do you mean by an overview?  If you mean someone has to tell you what to look for and how to find and take actions, that is a real overgeneralization.  It depends on your level of knowledge, and on your ability to figure things out.  Many people don'tg have good training in Windows and Windows programs so change is much more difficult for them to deal with.  They learn things largely by rote and don't know how to find things well in a new interface.  Some people have problems conceptualizing interfaces.  But to speak in broad generalizaqtions such as that we need these things, as though it is necessary just because it is is not accurate and may encourage some people not to aspire to develop or even know the sk9ills I'm talking about exist.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 4:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

I think sometimes it really does take us longer to get to grips with change,
as we need an overview to know what we are dealing with. its a bit like
returning to an old familiar place only to find all the landmarks are gone
or moved. First of all you have no idea of whether to look for something
being moved or just taken away, and since you have no overview, you really
need some explanation or a tactile map first. So it is with new interfaces
to familiar programs or webmail interfaces.

Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@...>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

Hi, Gene,

I was talking about people who resist change. I do understand that in some
cases, change might not be good. For instance, I did try the Walmart site
but found it very hard to work with. I tried it with object navigation and
couldn't get it to work. I called the people in charge and they really
weren't too helpful. I should have made myself clearer by saying that I was
talking about people who don't want to try to learn new things.


From: [] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

How do you adapt to change if a program becomes inaccessible or largely so,
and you can't use other methods, such as object navigation to access it?
That has been happening increasingly frequently.   Your faith in writing to
developers is by no means going to accomplish anything.  Of course people
should write to developers.  Don't you think that if it were more effective
than on a hit and miss basis, that a lot of programs that are now
inaccessible wouldn't be?

You said we all must adapt to change.  What does that mean and under what
circumstances should or must we adapt?  these are broad unexplained and
undefined statements.

If something someone uses meets their needs, then they don't have to change
anything.  If someone has nees that aren't being met, then, if they want to
meet those needs, they have to adapt to change if useable or accessible
programs or operating systems are available.

A lot of blind people receive poor instruction in Windows and in Windows
programs.  They learn by rote so that changes that could be either easily or
rather easily accomodated by others who are well taught are major problems
for them.


----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie Chavarria <mailto:knitqueen2007@...>

Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 2:01 PM

To: <>

Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7


Maybe what I said is a bit harsh but I can understand why some people can't
change. Maybe for financial reasons they're not able to upgrade to windows 7
or 10 and I do get it. As far as people who are afraid of change, no, that
doesn't make them less valuable than the rest of us. All I'm getting at is
that one should write to a developer whether it's microsoft or some other
company about trying to make something more accessible. I realize change can
be hard but we do have to eventually adapt to it. I didn't mean to come off
as being harsh.


From: <>
[] On Behalf Of Felix G.
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 10:12 AM
To: <>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7


Wow, makes me feel glad to be working in an environment where nobody gets
fired right on the spot for voicing a valid complaint.

What makes you assume that someone pointing out accessibility flaws doesn't
have a life? That's a pretty generalizing statement from my standpoint, and
I'd love to understand the underlying logic before dismissing it as
simplistic and/or impolite.

Also, is it valid at this point to assume that if someone is afraid of
losing access to something, they are automatically afraid of change in
general? I don't see how that follows. Even if someone were afraid of
change, would that disqualify them as a valuable human being?

Finally, you mention the paradigm of shaping up or shipping out. Let's say
some software gets replaced and the new version has serious accessibility
flaws making it impossible for someone to be as productive as before, what
exactly would shaping up consist of?

Looking forward to some fruitful discourse.
Best regards,


Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...
<mailto:knitqueen2007@...> > schrieb am Fr., 16. Feb. 2018 um 18:43

Hi, Michael,

You're darn right that no employer would put up with whining and complaining
from any employee whether blind or sighted. They'd be fired right on the
spot! I don't know why some people are afraid of change. As I always say,
it's time to get a life. Like the old saying goes, shape up or ship out.


From: <>
[ <> ] On Behalf Of
Michael Capelle
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 6:45 AM

To: <>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

Hey there.

i do agree with a few things here.

we, blind or not, have to get used to change, whether we like it or not.

if we had a job, and they upgraded there systems, do you think whining and
complaining would get you anywhere?

no, it would get you fired.

we have to get with the times, it is just how life is.

From: Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@...>

Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 7:40 AM

To: <>

Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

Clare I’ll have to break it to you gently as a good favorite country song of
mine is called. You are going to have to upgrade to WIN 10 32 or 64 bit in
the future. I don’t think its cute that other blind people etc. are putting
up Skype V 7.x on Dropbox etc. Folks get a life and get a grip. This version
of Skype will die and you must move forward like or lump it. Yeah MS didn’t
ask us about how we feel about this and they never will. And for the record
this tread is getting old like sour milk. So with that being said put up or
shut up and send feedback to MS to make the current iderations of Skype on
all platforms accessible. Peace out and I’m done. Grow up folks!

Lino Morales

From: Clare Page <>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 8:21 AM
To: <>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

I've been reading this thread about the phasing out of Skype 7, which is
already getting quite long, with interest, as I've been using Skype for
nearly ten year snow, and I don't want to give up on it if I don't
absolutely have to.
As I write this, Skype 7.40 still works on my 64-bit Windows 7 PC, but,
judging from what I've read lately, it is hard to guess how much longer
Skype 7 will still exist. Some people say Skype 7's days are numbered,
others say there has been a glitch which caused problems with Skype 7 and
made it impossible for some of its users to log in for a while, but I'm not
totally sure which to believe: both might be true, for all I know.
It's great that there are accessible alternatives to Skype out there, and
that Windows 10 users also have the option of using Skype UWP, the Skype
version from the Windows Store. But what will the rest of us NVDA users do,
those who don't have Windows 10 and want to stick with Skype for whatever
reason, when Skype 7 no longer works? That is bound to happen one day.
I'm sad to say I have not yet heard any word from the NVDA developers about
any work on Skype 8 to make it more accessible with NVDA in the future. Will
future versions of NVDA support Skype 8 without the need for add-ons, or is
there the possibility of an add-on being produced for Skype 8 to help us
until the stable version of NVDA fully supports the new Skype for desktop?
If there are any developers reading this who can answer the above questions,
or tell us anything else about the current situation where Skype 8 and NVDA
are concerned, I'm sure I am not the only one who would be happy to hear
from them on this list.
Thanks in advance for any answers to my questions, whatever they say.
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: <>
[] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: vendredi 16 février 2018 06:04
To: <>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

This is the link I got from the net
Weather this is the latest version is unknown though.
filehipo has a version of skype classic to.
I have backups on my dropbox which is fine however if I share my links
dropbox is only a free account.

On 16/02/2018 5:52 p.m., inamuddinInam Uddin via Groups.Io wrote:
> Dear friend, can you share the link for us?
> As far as my self is concern, only ninite does have Skype classic!
> With regards from Inamuddin with the Skype ID:
> Charlsdarwin1
> Arguing with a woman is reading software license agreement.
> At the end, you have to ignore everything and clic I agree.
> You can contact me via gmail:
> inamuddin09@... <mailto:inamuddin09@...>
> Inamuddin.ronaque@... <mailto:Inamuddin.ronaque@...>
> outlook:
> inam092@... <mailto:inam092@...>
> yahoo:
> inamuddin2010@... <mailto:inamuddin2010@...>
> Add my Skype ID:
> charlsdarwin1
> Meet me on facebook:
> <>
> Follow me on my twitter ID:
> <>
> Call me on my cell numbers:
> +92-300-2227598 <tel:+92%20300%202227598>
> +92-334-3348409 <tel:+92%20334%203348409>
> From: Shaun Everiss
> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 8:38 AM
> To: <>
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7
> Well if they would improve skype 8 to be more accessible or improve
> skype app so that some of the good features of skype 7 are ported over
> thats all we ask.
> Now it does appear that the download links for skype classic have
> changed, I have found 1 link to get skype classic, but to be honest,
> its really not skype classic users want, I don't really want skype
> classic, I just want to use the latest skype in an accessible way.
> Hmmm, there is a thought I wander if I was a skype insider, I wander
> if that would change things some.
> On 16/02/2018 2:14 p.m., inamuddinInam Uddin via Groups.Io wrote:
>> Dear friends, the matter of fact is that I did talk with the team of
>> Skype support and I expressed all of my concerns regarding accessibility
>> and screen reader related things and He told me that Microsoft is not
>> forcing people to use modern Skype as long as they will remove all of our
>> concerns.
>> Further more He said that we can use Skype classic as long as that
>> version is installed in our machines.
>> He said that if anyone of you is facing any kind of problem using Skype
>> classic, feel free to contact Skype support and they will always be
>> reading to fix the issue whatever you people have regarding the use of
>> Skype classic.
>> That’s what the result of conversation between me and Skype support team
>> but as far as my opinion is concern, Microsoft is secretly forcing us to
>> switch over from Skype classic to either Skype 8 for those who are using
>> less than windows 10 or Skype app for windows 10 for those who are using
>> windows 10.
>> To my best knowledge if we all screen reader users regardless of what
>> screen reader we are using continue to connect to Microsoft disability
>> answer desk and with the help of them if we continue to connect to Skype
>> support team and if we continue to voice our concern, at the end of the
>> day our concerns will be heard and will be removed as well!
>> There is a need of unity among users of screen reader users.
>> It is not the time to argue a screen reader against a screen reader that
>> which one is better, it is the time to show solidarity and unity of
>> visually challenged people to Microsoft in order to rescue Skype from
>> dying!
>> HTH
>> With regards from Inamuddin with the Skype ID:
>> Charlsdarwin1
>> Arguing with a woman is reading software license agreement.
>> At the end, you have to ignore everything and clic I agree.
>> You can contact me via gmail:
>> inamuddin09@... <mailto:inamuddin09@...>
>> Inamuddin.ronaque@... <mailto:Inamuddin.ronaque@...>
>> outlook:
>> inam092@... <mailto:inam092@...>
>> yahoo:
>> inamuddin2010@... <mailto:inamuddin2010@...>
>> Add my Skype ID:
>> charlsdarwin1
>> Meet me on facebook:
>> <>
>> Follow me on my twitter ID:
>> <>
>> Call me on my cell numbers:
>> +92-300-2227598 <tel:+92%20300%202227598>
>> +92-334-3348409 <tel:+92%20334%203348409>
>> From: Shaun Everiss
>> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 4:26 AM
>> To: <>
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7
>> What bar skype chatting services are usefull on pc that my family can
>> use, can google hangouts work for pc, or what.
>> I have 1 friend on zello but I havn't really used it.
>> Everyone I know have whats app skype or facetime but well for me
>> skype is used a lot and the family well.
>> When is skype to not nolonger be supported as a valid version of skype?
>> If it goes I guess I will have to try to use 8 and the universal app.
>> On 16/02/2018 4:23 a.m., Michael Capelle wrote:
>>> I don’t blame you, now with facetime, google hangouts, etc, skype really
>>> has died.
>>> From: Damien Garwood
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM
>>> To: <>
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7
>>> Hi,
>>> I’ll be abandoning Skype when 7 dies as well. I’ve had a mess with 8,
>>> and as far as I’m concerned, it stinks.
>>> It’s a shame though. While I also have a TeamTalk server, and while the
>>> quality is indeed a lot better, TeamTalk is meant, A, for teams, and B,
>>> not for telephony. To use TeamTalk as a substitute for Skype would be a
>>> pain, since someone would first have to contact you by other means to
>>> ask you to come on TT, something which obviously isn’t necessary with
>>> Skype.
>>> Not only that, but perhaps the biggest issue is that Skype was my
>>> primary telephone.
>>> So yeah. Going Skypeless will indeed take a lot of getting used to.
>>> I can’t ever see me going back to Skype. Crashes, accessibility
>>> shortfalls and process hogging are only the primary issues. And there’s
>>> me thinking Skype could never be any slower and broken than it already
>>> was in 7.
>>> Cheers.
>>> Damien.
>>> From: Michael Capelle
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 2:17 PM
>>> To: <>
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7
>>> i agree, i only use team talk, as i have my own server, and the quality
>>> is much better.
>>> e-mail me off list if you wish to join my server.
>>> From: Robert Kingett
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 8:15 AM
>>> To: <>
>>> Subject: [nvda] Phasing out of 7
>>> The below page from Doug lee explains the phasing out of Skype 7 in
>>> favor of Skype 8 or the Universal App on windows 10. I have no idea what
>>> you folks on XP will do, but I stopped using Skype in favor of team talk
>>> anyway.

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