Re: OEClassic gets an update fixing more accessibility issues


Gene
 

This is a very long message, really an essay with a lot of instructional explanations and examples.  But those who are interested in really using the Internet w3ell will, I hope, read it. 
 
But I'm not talking so much about these sorts of lists and technical questions.  Sighted people constantly use Google.  In the middle of a conversation, if a fact is not known, is disputed or the person wants more information, if no one knows in the conversation or if it is disputed, as I said, Someone does a Google search. I'm talking about social situations where people only have their phones.  But it's so engrained to use Google that if people are at their computers and some sort of similar situation comes up, why wouldn't they use them?  This is so prevalent that commentators write articles about it. they discuss questions such as how this has affect3ed conversations and taken the fun out of disputing or arguing about information. 
 
If you want to know something about using a computer or something else with adaptive technology, you may get better answers on specialized lists like this one.  But there are all sorts of areas, you get an error message with a number such as 287 when you try to send an e-mail or when you try to do something else.  Instead of asking a list is a first resort, write something like the name of the program and the error message number into a Google search field, do a search, and see what you get.  Don't run any programs any sites offer to solve a problem.  Only do things that people tell you to do on sites like Bleeping Computers if you think the information is trustworthy.  All sorts of sites have good information but they make their money on offering, as advertising, you a program to do this or that to solve your problem or to clean your registry or whatever.  You have to learn things about what to do and what not to do and that is far beyond the perview of this list.  But there are other good blindness-related technical lists where such questions would be welcomed and on topic.  I can give information about two such lists if desired.
 
What about other examples? 
How many computers can you run your version of Word on?  Search for how many computers can you run Word 2010 on, as an example.  I haven't done this but I'm confident that you'll get lots of relevant results.  My hard drive is making a clicking sound when I first start my computer.  What does it mean?  A google search for hard drive clicks during spin up or my hard drive clicks when first started or some variation will yield lots of relevant results. 
 
For most of my life, I had to rely on sighted people to get all sorts of information that I might want to know such as might be in an encyclopedia.  All I have to do is do a Google search for a topic and write the word wikipedia and one of the first results is almost certain to be a Wikipedia article on the subject.  At times, when I read a difficult piece of literature and I want to know more about it and understand it better but I don't want to read something as detailed as a book, if I do a search for something like the name of the book and the word criticism, I'll often find good information.  I have to evaluate the source.  Is it a good source or a questionable source such as something a high school student posted on line like a term paper he/she did?  And even then, if I read some or all of a questionable source, I may get good information. 
 
I almost never go to a site where I know I might find something any longer.  If I want to find an NVDA add on, I type something like NVDA and then the name of the add on or if I don't know it, I might type something like NVDA add on for weather or NVDA weather add on.  I check the address under the link I'm interested in following to make sure it's the NVDA add ons page.  It's so much easier than working with all sorts of different web pages to just open the Google search edit field in my browser, do a search and go to the page I want. 
 
And as I've repeatedly emphasized, Google search is a consumer product.  It understands sentences.  If you are more comfortable writing sentences than just a terse phrase such as New York City population 2018, you can write What is the population of New York City in 2018.  You don't have to use voice assistants like The Echo to do searches.  Why are people so intimidated and unwilling to do Google searches but not to ask a question of a search assistant? 
 
The sorts of things I'm discussing should be an important part of any good Internet training material for blind people.  It isn't.  You are taught the mechanics of searching but nothing or almost nothing of what I've been discussing. 
 
Gene

From: JM Casey
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OEClassic gets an update fixing more accessibility issues

I think you are absolutely spot on with this. I used to get really annoyed when people would respond to a question with “google is your friend” and somesuch, because I thought they were just closing potentially useful discussion in a smart-arsed kind of way. But that was before I joined a lot of “blind tech” type mailing lists. Now, I can’t begin to estimate the number of times I see questions being asked whose answers could be found almost immediately with a simple google search, especially when it comes to step-by-step instructions on how to do something. Not so much on this list, which I don’t always have much to contribute to, but especially on a JAWS list I subscribe to. Whenever I use google, 9 times out of 10, I’d say, I find exactly what I want on the first try. Maybe I just know how to break down a question into its key elements to get meaningful results? Maybe not everyone has this skill. I don’t know. It’s always seemed second-nature to me and I’ve been doing web searches since the days when I used the Internet through telnet and a linux shell in 1996. And it’s mostly gotten better since then, not worse. I know looking at strange websites can sometimes be a pain, but when you see all the stuff you can find out there and how almost any problem you have can be cleared up without the need to call someone in a panic or something, it’ll give you a great sense of independence.

 

For tech-related questions, there are dozens of forums (message boards) out there where people have posted about experiencing every kind of issue you can think of. There’s usually a discussion, and sometimes multiple solutions. You can learn a lot from looking at these forum posts.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 23, 2018 3:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OEClassic gets an update fixing more accessibility issues

 

Neither the list owner nor I, the moderator, have said anything about this.  Since you may be interested in my opinion, not as a moderator, but as someone who doesn't like to see blind people needlessly depriving themselves of a lot of information available to blind people in real time and with complete independence, I'll give it.

 

You learn how to do Internet Searches by trial and error after you know the basic principles.  You won't get malware by doing a search.  You may get malware by going to a not trusted site.  The address to the site is given below the link to every result. 

 

If you are downloading something and you don't know and aren't sure what a trusted site is for the download, then asking makes sense.  Also, free programs increasingly are bundled with programs people don't want and that may cause problems even if the download comes from the producer of the program's site.  So again, asking makes sense if you are worried about that.  But in an era when Google is used for an enormous amount of information, a lot of blind people don't use it much.  After centuries of blind people being at a significant information disadvantage, when sighted people use Google constantly, it's indeed unfortunate that so many blind people don't do so. 

 

As far as the list is concerned, there is no list position about people asking questions or using Google.  A list member may express an opinion now and then, but that' is the opinion of the member.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 9:50 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] OEClassic gets an update fixing more accessibility issues

 

 sara  you  are a better woman then me.

it's hard to Google and not know what exactly one is looking for.

I also worry about malware.

But as I said if the list owners want me to check Google before posting to this list I'll abide by the rules just along as we all follow them.

 

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 7:47 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OEClassic gets an update fixing more accessibility issues

As a general role I do my best and google for what I need first. This causes me to learn about operateors etc and I might get information a lot faster than this list, or any other lists. If I cannot find the info I will reference the fact I did google for it and got no results.

 

Take care



On Feb 21, 2018, at 6:41 PM, Karim Lakhani <karim.lakhani@...> wrote:

 

thanks can we close this list to many questions are being asked when we can rely on google.

 

 

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SKYPE: goldenace4

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Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)

 

 

 

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 5:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OEClassic gets an update fixing more accessibility issues

A Google search for OE Classic identities shows this article as the first result:

 

Yes, it has identities.  It doesn't say whether they are available in both the free and paid versions. 

 

See this page, containing a table about features.  You can't read it using table commands but just down arrowing through it reads self-explanatory lines and it makes perfect sense and is in logical order. 

Identities are only available in the pro version, which you must pay for.

Message rules are available in both versions.

 

Gene

-Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:24 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] OEClassic gets an update fixing more accessibility issues

 

The question is, does it have identities in a free or relatively cheap
version. This and message rules are the most important things along with
read and unread flag reading etc.
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Kingett" <kingettr@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OEClassic gets an update fixing more accessibility
issues


I did some web crawling. The pro version has identities, so not sure if that
is something you want, but I would comb through all of their news section
( https://www.oeclassic.com/news ) to see what features have been added. The
free version is on 27 now. 28, the more accessible version, will be free
when the pro version shoots up to 29. I can wait. No big deal for me, but I
think it is a one time payment? And you get upgrades for life? I'll have to
look at the website again though.


 

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