Well the big issue ofcause is market size, we are a small market.

And at any rate as times go on and such, in theory the number of
disabled will get less, and in that respect it may be better time
spent to focus on getting rid of the reasons people become disabled
where ever possible.

My condition for example, will no longer happen, for me I am the last
but no more will probably exist now and that at least is a good thing
sucks for me but even so.

As for not caring, the fact there are accessibility teams and the fact
ms/apple and not soni actually do a deal means to some extent they
care enough but not all the way.

Some of it seems in ms case to be team communication where not
everyone seems to keep everyone else in the loop but the rest I don't
know.




On 17/03/2018 5:27 p.m., John Isige wrote:

Yeah, I'm with you guys. I think we should do something but I have no
idea what we could do. If only there were some sort of interest on the
part of Microsoft in feedback from the blind and a way we could give it.
I mean sort of like this fantasy here.


https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/03/16/improving-skype-accessibility/


Huh! Actually, now that I come to look at it, that seems pretty real.
Weird! Must not be though because big corporations and I'm a poor blind
person and reasons. Somebody try it and see if it accesses a dimension
full of unicorns or summons Cthulhu or something. Because it's surely
not Microsoft asking for feedback on the accessibility of skype. They
were awfully clever, to make it look like they care about us and what we
think, but I'm not falling for it, giant corporation who couldn't care
less about our poor downtrodden minority population!

In case you don't appreciate sarcasm, there's a blog post where
Microsoft is talking about accessibility improvements for Skype and
asking for more feedback, so there's actually something everybody can
do. Here's the link again.

https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/03/16/improving-skype-accessibility/


On 3/16/2018 23:09, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Hmmm you know I am with you, but exactly what do you want to exactly
do?

There is no way we can legally fight with the big corperates, they do
what they want, and if you anger them you get it in the nuts.

If I was skilled enough I guess I and a few could just take a lot of
them down, make em pay, and take everything else with them which may
make us feel good in the short term but probably wouldn't achieve
anything much.

If something is not accessible, you ask your local blind org about it
and they get anoyed with the bitg corps and just put  out another non
binding resolution which no one cares about.

There is no way anyone government or not will try to inforce full
access, there probably isn't a way to really do that anyway.

I guess if we got enough of us together, and did a petition on
change.org it would work except all of those are non binding.

The only way we may get a reaction is if a bunch of users posted their
keys online with complaints and made it known, it would have to be
pritty large numbers thoughh, and maybe include a few cracks and
ransomware attacks in there to.

Even so, we would then be sued and in turn would have to burn all
their websites down and sue all of them at once in such a way it would
make the news for ages and show we were serious.

However, it would have to be continuous, I mean this is not the yung
fighting against the system days of my younger years, what you are
proposing is a sustained war for long enough at the monsters that
would force them to change assuming they don't want to talk, some of
them like ms are doing their bit but not fully.

And even if we get it right, to win it may not be possible, but if we
do it and win and really push, but thats a big if.

Now I am not that expert at that sort of thing but if you can put a
group together maybe I join it, as long as you can win.

If we loose and we will loose its jail, the end of our lives, and the
bolstering of our enemies.

I fear we are not strong enough, but you think you can have this so
called revolution see, maybe if you win I look you up later.




On 17/03/2018 6:33 a.m., brian wrote:

What we should not have to get use to or except is the increasing
lack of full accessability.  Just telling somone to just grow up and
not offering them any help or any real sulutions is just plain rude
and is very uncalled for. No matter how independent or well adjusted
you are there will come a time when you will not have
someaccessability and you will feel quite helpless and both blind and
sighted people will tell you just grow up and except change. How will
you feel if one day yoou wake up only to find that you have no more
accessability because you did not advocate for it. If we want to be
first members of our society like nfb says then we do need to have
full accessability it's true that we do live in a sighted world but
they do need to have more accessability because not everything can
always be adapted for us there is a point when work arrounds just
don't work or they are not very efficient. We should not just except
what ever crums of token accessability the sighted chose to give us
we do want to live in the real world and to be as independent as we
can be but it's getting harder to do this.  What will happen in 5 or
10 years from now will we be like the blind were back in the 1800's
having almost independence or real accessability what goes arrounds
comes arround.  I hope that when this does happen I hope that you are
happy because you will get what you deserve.  maybe you like always
being left behind and if you don't advocate for accessability you
won't have just saying that everything is fine I AM  not having any
problems that is a lie and you need to get your head out of the
sand.  This is not the future I want but it is the future we will all
have all because the blind community will just not advocate for
accessability if they do it's only a very small of them and they
don't keep the preasure on they just go away when they get told no.
I have been blind since birth and our future does not look very good
when it comes to full accessability.  Both acb and nfb are totally
usless in this area they are doing nothing about it.  Why do other
people with other disabilties have more accessability because they
advocate for it and they did not give up.  Think of the deaf
community and the wheelchair comminity they have so much more
accessability then the blind have.  I do admire them for this and it
should be a lesson for us.  We have changes forced up us on not for
the better and we are just soposted to just accept it and shut up
well not me and who is with me?  either you want to be a member of
the society that is sighted or you don't

Brian Sackrider


On 2/16/2018 12:43 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Michael,

You're darn right that no employer would put up with whining and
complaining from any employee whether blind or sighted. They'd be
fired right on the spot! I don't know why some people are afraid of
change. As I always say, it's time to get a life. Like the old
saying goes, shape up or ship out.

Rosemarie

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf
Of *Michael Capelle
*Sent:* Friday, February 16, 2018 6:45 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

Hey there.

i do agree with a few things here.

we, blind or not, have to get used to change, whether we like it or
not.

if we had a job, and they upgraded there systems, do you think
whining and complaining would get you anywhere?

no, it would get you fired.

we have to get with the times, it is just how life is.

*From:*Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@...>

*Sent:*Friday, February 16, 2018 7:40 AM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

Clare I’ll have to break it to you gently as a good favorite country
song of mine is called. You are going to have to upgrade to WIN 10
32 or 64 bit in the future. I don’t think its cute that other blind
people etc. are putting up Skype V 7.x on Dropbox etc. Folks get a
life and get a grip. This version of Skype will die and you must
move forward like or lump it. Yeah MS didn’t ask us about how we
feel about this and they never will. And for the record this tread
is getting old like sour milk. So with that being said put up or
shut up and send feedback to MS to make the current iderations of
Skype on all platforms accessible. Peace out and I’m done. Grow up
folks!

Lino Morales

*From: *Clare Page <mailto:clare.page@...>
*Sent: *Friday, February 16, 2018 8:21 AM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

Hi!
I've been reading this thread about the phasing out of Skype 7,
which is already getting quite long, with interest, as I've been
using Skype for nearly ten year snow, and I don't want to give up on
it if I don't absolutely have to.
As I write this, Skype 7.40 still works on my 64-bit Windows 7 PC,
but, judging from what I've read lately, it is hard to guess how
much longer Skype 7 will still exist. Some people say Skype 7's days
are numbered, others say there has been a glitch which caused
problems with Skype 7 and made it impossible for some of its users
to log in for a while, but I'm not totally sure which to believe:
both might be true, for all I know.
It's great that there are accessible alternatives to Skype out
there, and that Windows 10 users also have the option of using Skype
UWP, the Skype version from the Windows Store. But what will the
rest of us NVDA users do, those who don't have Windows 10 and want
to stick with Skype for whatever reason, when Skype 7 no longer
works? That is bound to happen one day.
I'm sad to say I have not yet heard any word from the NVDA
developers about any work on Skype 8 to make it more accessible with
NVDA in the future. Will future versions of NVDA support Skype 8
without the need for add-ons, or is there the possibility of an
add-on being produced for Skype 8 to help us until the stable
version of NVDA fully supports the new Skype for desktop?
If there are any developers reading this who can answer the above
questions, or tell us anything else about the current situation
where Skype 8 and NVDA are concerned, I'm sure I am not the only one
who would be happy to hear from them on this list.
Thanks in advance for any answers to my questions, whatever they say.
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: vendredi 16 février 2018 06:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7


This is the link I got from the net
http://download.skyprivate.com/skype/win/SkypeSetupFull.exe
Weather this is the latest version is unknown though.
filehipo has a version of skype classic to.
I have backups on my dropbox which is fine however if I share my
links dropbox is only a free account.

On 16/02/2018 5:52 p.m., inamuddinInam Uddin via Groups.Io wrote:

Dear friend, can you share the link for us?
As far as my self is concern, only ninite does have Skype classic!
With regards from Inamuddin with the Skype ID:
Charlsdarwin1


Arguing with a woman is reading software license agreement.
At the end, you have to ignore everything and clic I agree.
You can contact me via gmail:
inamuddin09@... <mailto:inamuddin09@...>
Inamuddin.ronaque@... <mailto:Inamuddin.ronaque@...>
outlook:
inam092@... <mailto:inam092@...>
yahoo:
inamuddin2010@... <mailto:inamuddin2010@...>
Add my Skype ID:
charlsdarwin1
Meet me on facebook:
www.facebook.com/inamuddin786

<http://www.facebook.com/inamuddin786>

Follow me on my twitter ID:
www.twitter.com/charlsdarwin1

<http://www.twitter.com/charlsdarwin1>

Call me on my cell numbers:
+92-300-2227598
+92-334-3348409

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 8:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

Well if they would improve skype 8 to be more accessible or improve
skype app so that some of the good features of skype 7 are ported

over

thats all we ask.

Now it does appear that the download links for skype classic have
changed, I have found 1 link to get skype classic, but to be

honest,

its really not skype classic users want, I don't really want skype
classic, I just want to use the latest skype in an accessible way.

Hmmm, there is a thought I wander if I was a skype insider, I

wander

if that would change things some.




On 16/02/2018 2:14 p.m., inamuddinInam Uddin via Groups.Io wrote:

Dear friends, the matter of fact is that I did talk with the team

of Skype support and I expressed all of my concerns regarding
accessibility and screen reader related things and He told me that
Microsoft is not forcing people to use modern Skype as long as they
will remove all of our concerns.

Further more He said that we can use Skype classic as long as

that version is installed in our machines.

He said that if anyone of you is facing any kind of problem using

Skype classic, feel free to contact Skype support and they will
always be reading to fix the issue whatever you people have
regarding the use of Skype classic.

That’s what the result of conversation between me and Skype

support team but as far as my opinion is concern, Microsoft is
secretly forcing us to switch over from Skype classic to either
Skype 8 for those who are using less than windows 10 or Skype app
for windows 10 for those who are using windows 10.

To my best knowledge if we all screen reader users regardless of

what screen reader we are using continue to connect to Microsoft
disability answer desk and with the help of them if we continue to
connect to Skype support team and if we continue to voice our
concern, at the end of the day our concerns will be heard and will
be removed as well!

There is a need of unity among users of screen reader users.
It is not the time to argue a screen reader against a screen

reader that which one is better, it is the time to show solidarity
and unity of visually challenged people to Microsoft in order to
rescue Skype from dying!

HTH
With regards from Inamuddin with the Skype ID:
Charlsdarwin1


Arguing with a woman is reading software license agreement.
At the end, you have to ignore everything and clic I agree.
You can contact me via gmail:
inamuddin09@... <mailto:inamuddin09@...>
Inamuddin.ronaque@... <mailto:Inamuddin.ronaque@...>
outlook:
inam092@... <mailto:inam092@...>
yahoo:
inamuddin2010@... <mailto:inamuddin2010@...>
Add my Skype ID:
charlsdarwin1
Meet me on facebook:
www.facebook.com/inamuddin786

<http://www.facebook.com/inamuddin786>

Follow me on my twitter ID:
www.twitter.com/charlsdarwin1

<http://www.twitter.com/charlsdarwin1>

Call me on my cell numbers:
+92-300-2227598
+92-334-3348409

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 4:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

What bar skype chatting services are usefull on pc that my family

can

use, can google hangouts work for pc, or what.

I have 1 friend on zello but I havn't really used it.

Everyone I know have whats app skype or facetime but well for me
skype is used a lot and the family well.

When is skype to not nolonger be supported as a valid version of

skype?

If it goes I guess I will have to try to use 8 and the universal

app.

On 16/02/2018 4:23 a.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

I don’t blame you, now with facetime, google hangouts, etc,

skype really has died.

From: Damien Garwood
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

Hi,
I’ll be abandoning Skype when 7 dies as well. I’ve had a mess

with 8, and as far as I’m concerned, it stinks.

It’s a shame though. While I also have a TeamTalk server, and

while the quality is indeed a lot better, TeamTalk is meant, A, for
teams, and B, not for telephony. To use TeamTalk as a substitute for
Skype would be a pain, since someone would first have to contact you
by other means to ask you to come on TT, something which obviously
isn’t necessary with Skype.

Not only that, but perhaps the biggest issue is that Skype was

my primary telephone.

So yeah. Going Skypeless will indeed take a lot of getting

used to.

I can’t ever see me going back to Skype. Crashes, accessibility

shortfalls and process hogging are only the primary issues. And
there’s me thinking Skype could never be any slower and broken than
it already was in 7.

Cheers.
Damien.


From: Michael Capelle
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 2:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

i agree, i only use team talk, as i have my own server, and the

quality is much better.

e-mail me off list if you wish to join my server.

From: Robert Kingett
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 8:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

The below page from Doug lee explains the phasing out of Skype 7

in favor of Skype 8 or the Universal App on windows 10. I have no
idea what you folks on XP will do, but I stopped using Skype in
favor of team talk anyway.

http://www.dlee.org/skype/skype7phaseout.htm#what