Re: Phasing out of 7

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>

That's quite well put, John. I'm not always Microsoft's biggest fan (my
relationship with Windows 10 is about as fractious as it was with my
ex-wife), but I know from a little experience that they have an interest and
a willingness to work with organisations to address accessibility concerns
and improve their own systems. When I was working at the IT department of
the largest blindness-related organisation here in Canada, they had regular
conference calls with MS where lots of issues were brought up and discussed,
and my supervisor there is sure that specific changes were made due to him
and his colleagues' recommendations. Unfortunately, even though he made a
recommendation, I was never invited to any of those meetings, and I don't
work there anymore. *shrugs*....the main issue now seems to be access
technology keeping up with the frequent updates. It seems that it's
inevitable some improvements come with what appear to be steps backwards.
The "breaking" (in quotes) of the calculator accessibility is something that
immediately springs to mind.

-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of John
Sent: March 17, 2018 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

Yeah look, I'm not saying these corporations are bastions of unmitigated
awesomeness and caring. I'm just saying, Microsoft seems to be really making
some nice improvements, for instance I think you'll be able to run Narrator
in safe mode soon under 10.

They are clearly trying to make Skype accessibility improvements, and
they're clearly asking for feedback about it. That doesn't mean any of us
will get exactly what we want or anything, but it does mean that one thing
you can do to try to improve Skype is to actually try using it and giving
them feedback about what you consider accessibility issues.

They're not going to satisfy everybody because different people like
different things, I know some people love numbered links on web pages and I
find them really annoying and they really get in the way of accessibility
for me. They drive me nuts. But that having been said, sorry, Microsoft is
at least trying to care. They're doing what people want them to do, they're
trying to get feedback from the actual community of users.

So yeah, you have something you can do, right now, to potentially affect the
future accessibility of Skype. At least try it instead of complaining that
nobody loves you and everybody hates you and you'll guess you'll go eat
worms, or other crazy things like mentioning a bunch of illegal stuff like
ransomeware attacks against companies. Maybe it will all turn out to be
horrible, but Microsoft is trying to care about us, not just by doing
whatever for accessibility but actually asking for feedback and all to make
it better for us. How about at least giving them a chance, huh?

On 3/17/2018 0:12, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Well the big issue ofcause is market size, we are a small market.

And at any rate as times go on and such, in theory the number of
disabled will get less, and in that respect it may be better time
spent to focus on getting rid of the reasons people become disabled
where ever possible.

My condition for example, will no longer happen, for me I am the last
but no more will probably exist now and that at least is a good thing
sucks for me but even so.

As for not caring, the fact there are accessibility teams and the fact
ms/apple and not soni actually do a deal means to some extent they
care enough but not all the way.

Some of it seems in ms case to be team communication where not
everyone seems to keep everyone else in the loop but the rest I don't

On 17/03/2018 5:27 p.m., John Isige wrote:
Yeah, I'm with you guys. I think we should do something but I have no
idea what we could do. If only there were some sort of interest on
the part of Microsoft in feedback from the blind and a way we could give
I mean sort of like this fantasy here.

Huh! Actually, now that I come to look at it, that seems pretty real.
Weird! Must not be though because big corporations and I'm a poor
blind person and reasons. Somebody try it and see if it accesses a
dimension full of unicorns or summons Cthulhu or something. Because
it's surely not Microsoft asking for feedback on the accessibility of
skype. They were awfully clever, to make it look like they care about
us and what we think, but I'm not falling for it, giant corporation
who couldn't care less about our poor downtrodden minority population!

In case you don't appreciate sarcasm, there's a blog post where
Microsoft is talking about accessibility improvements for Skype and
asking for more feedback, so there's actually something everybody can
do. Here's the link again.

On 3/16/2018 23:09, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Hmmm you know I am with you, but exactly what do you want to exactly

There is no way we can legally fight with the big corperates, they
do what they want, and if you anger them you get it in the nuts.

If I was skilled enough I guess I and a few could just take a lot of
them down, make em pay, and take everything else with them which may
make us feel good in the short term but probably wouldn't achieve
anything much.

If something is not accessible, you ask your local blind org about
it and they get anoyed with the bitg corps and just put  out another
non binding resolution which no one cares about.

There is no way anyone government or not will try to inforce full
access, there probably isn't a way to really do that anyway.

I guess if we got enough of us together, and did a petition on it would work except all of those are non binding.

The only way we may get a reaction is if a bunch of users posted
their keys online with complaints and made it known, it would have
to be pritty large numbers thoughh, and maybe include a few cracks
and ransomware attacks in there to.

Even so, we would then be sued and in turn would have to burn all
their websites down and sue all of them at once in such a way it
would make the news for ages and show we were serious.

However, it would have to be continuous, I mean this is not the yung
fighting against the system days of my younger years, what you are
proposing is a sustained war for long enough at the monsters that
would force them to change assuming they don't want to talk, some of
them like ms are doing their bit but not fully.

And even if we get it right, to win it may not be possible, but if
we do it and win and really push, but thats a big if.

Now I am not that expert at that sort of thing but if you can put a
group together maybe I join it, as long as you can win.

If we loose and we will loose its jail, the end of our lives, and
the bolstering of our enemies.

I fear we are not strong enough, but you think you can have this so
called revolution see, maybe if you win I look you up later.

On 17/03/2018 6:33 a.m., brian wrote:
What we should not have to get use to or except is the increasing
lack of full accessability.  Just telling somone to just grow up
and not offering them any help or any real sulutions is just plain
rude and is very uncalled for. No matter how independent or well
adjusted you are there will come a time when you will not have
someaccessability and you will feel quite helpless and both blind
and sighted people will tell you just grow up and except change.
How will you feel if one day yoou wake up only to find that you
have no more accessability because you did not advocate for it. If
we want to be first members of our society like nfb says then we do
need to have full accessability it's true that we do live in a
sighted world but they do need to have more accessability because
not everything can always be adapted for us there is a point when
work arrounds just don't work or they are not very efficient. We
should not just except what ever crums of token accessability the
sighted chose to give us we do want to live in the real world and
to be as independent as we can be but it's getting harder to do
this.  What will happen in 5 or
10 years from now will we be like the blind were back in the 1800's
having almost independence or real accessability what goes arrounds
comes arround.  I hope that when this does happen I hope that you
are happy because you will get what you deserve.  maybe you like
always being left behind and if you don't advocate for
accessability you won't have just saying that everything is fine I
AM  not having any problems that is a lie and you need to get your
head out of the sand.  This is not the future I want but it is the
future we will all have all because the blind community will just
not advocate for accessability if they do it's only a very small of
them and they don't keep the preasure on they just go away when they
get told no.
I have been blind since birth and our future does not look very
good when it comes to full accessability.  Both acb and nfb are
totally usless in this area they are doing nothing about it.  Why
do other people with other disabilties have more accessability
because they advocate for it and they did not give up.  Think of
the deaf community and the wheelchair comminity they have so much
more accessability then the blind have.  I do admire them for this
and it should be a lesson for us.  We have changes forced up us on
not for the better and we are just soposted to just accept it and
shut up well not me and who is with me?  either you want to be a
member of the society that is sighted or you don't

Brian Sackrider

On 2/16/2018 12:43 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Michael,

You're darn right that no employer would put up with whining and
complaining from any employee whether blind or sighted. They'd be
fired right on the spot! I don't know why some people are afraid
of change. As I always say, it's time to get a life. Like the old
saying goes, shape up or ship out.


*From:* [] *On
Behalf Of *Michael Capelle
*Sent:* Friday, February 16, 2018 6:45 AM
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

Hey there.

i do agree with a few things here.

we, blind or not, have to get used to change, whether we like it
or not.

if we had a job, and they upgraded there systems, do you think
whining and complaining would get you anywhere?

no, it would get you fired.

we have to get with the times, it is just how life is.

*From:*Lino Morales <>

*Sent:*Friday, February 16, 2018 7:40 AM

*To:* <>

*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

Clare I’ll have to break it to you gently as a good favorite
country song of mine is called. You are going to have to upgrade
to WIN 10
32 or 64 bit in the future. I don’t think its cute that other
blind people etc. are putting up Skype V 7.x on Dropbox etc. Folks
get a life and get a grip. This version of Skype will die and you
must move forward like or lump it. Yeah MS didn’t ask us about how
we feel about this and they never will. And for the record this
tread is getting old like sour milk. So with that being said put
up or shut up and send feedback to MS to make the current
iderations of Skype on all platforms accessible. Peace out and I’m
done. Grow up folks!

Lino Morales

*From: *Clare Page <>
*Sent: *Friday, February 16, 2018 8:21 AM
*To: * <>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

I've been reading this thread about the phasing out of Skype 7,
which is already getting quite long, with interest, as I've been
using Skype for nearly ten year snow, and I don't want to give up
on it if I don't absolutely have to.
As I write this, Skype 7.40 still works on my 64-bit Windows 7 PC,
but, judging from what I've read lately, it is hard to guess how
much longer Skype 7 will still exist. Some people say Skype 7's
days are numbered, others say there has been a glitch which caused
problems with Skype 7 and made it impossible for some of its users
to log in for a while, but I'm not totally sure which to believe:
both might be true, for all I know.
It's great that there are accessible alternatives to Skype out
there, and that Windows 10 users also have the option of using
Skype UWP, the Skype version from the Windows Store. But what will
the rest of us NVDA users do, those who don't have Windows 10 and
want to stick with Skype for whatever reason, when Skype 7 no
longer works? That is bound to happen one day.
I'm sad to say I have not yet heard any word from the NVDA
developers about any work on Skype 8 to make it more accessible
with NVDA in the future. Will future versions of NVDA support
Skype 8 without the need for add-ons, or is there the possibility
of an add-on being produced for Skype 8 to help us until the
stable version of NVDA fully supports the new Skype for desktop?
If there are any developers reading this who can answer the above
questions, or tell us anything else about the current situation
where Skype 8 and NVDA are concerned, I'm sure I am not the only
one who would be happy to hear from them on this list.
Thanks in advance for any answers to my questions, whatever they say.
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: <>
[] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: vendredi 16 février 2018 06:04
To: <>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

This is the link I got from the net
Weather this is the latest version is unknown though.
filehipo has a version of skype classic to.
I have backups on my dropbox which is fine however if I share my
links dropbox is only a free account.

On 16/02/2018 5:52 p.m., inamuddinInam Uddin via Groups.Io wrote:
Dear friend, can you share the link for us?
As far as my self is concern, only ninite does have Skype classic!
With regards from Inamuddin with the Skype ID:

Arguing with a woman is reading software license agreement.
At the end, you have to ignore everything and clic I agree.
You can contact me via gmail: <> <>
outlook: <>
yahoo: <> Add my
Skype ID:
Meet me on facebook:
Follow me on my twitter ID:
Call me on my cell numbers:

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 8:38 AM
To: <>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

Well if they would improve skype 8 to be more accessible or
improve skype app so that some of the good features of skype 7
are ported
thats all we ask.

Now it does appear that the download links for skype classic
have changed, I have found 1 link to get skype classic, but to
its really not skype classic users want, I don't really want
skype classic, I just want to use the latest skype in an accessible

Hmmm, there is a thought I wander if I was a skype insider, I
if that would change things some.

On 16/02/2018 2:14 p.m., inamuddinInam Uddin via Groups.Io wrote:
Dear friends, the matter of fact is that I did talk with the
of Skype support and I expressed all of my concerns regarding
accessibility and screen reader related things and He told me that
Microsoft is not forcing people to use modern Skype as long as
they will remove all of our concerns.
Further more He said that we can use Skype classic as long as
that version is installed in our machines.
He said that if anyone of you is facing any kind of problem
Skype classic, feel free to contact Skype support and they will
always be reading to fix the issue whatever you people have
regarding the use of Skype classic.
That’s what the result of conversation between me and Skype
support team but as far as my opinion is concern, Microsoft is
secretly forcing us to switch over from Skype classic to either
Skype 8 for those who are using less than windows 10 or Skype app
for windows 10 for those who are using windows 10.
To my best knowledge if we all screen reader users regardless
what screen reader we are using continue to connect to Microsoft
disability answer desk and with the help of them if we continue to
connect to Skype support team and if we continue to voice our
concern, at the end of the day our concerns will be heard and will
be removed as well!
There is a need of unity among users of screen reader users.
It is not the time to argue a screen reader against a screen
reader that which one is better, it is the time to show solidarity
and unity of visually challenged people to Microsoft in order to
rescue Skype from dying!
With regards from Inamuddin with the Skype ID:

Arguing with a woman is reading software license agreement.
At the end, you have to ignore everything and clic I agree.
You can contact me via gmail: <>
outlook: <>
yahoo: <> Add my
Skype ID:
Meet me on facebook:
Follow me on my twitter ID:
Call me on my cell numbers:

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 4:26 AM
To: <>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

What bar skype chatting services are usefull on pc that my
use, can google hangouts work for pc, or what.

I have 1 friend on zello but I havn't really used it.

Everyone I know have whats app skype or facetime but well for
me skype is used a lot and the family well.

When is skype to not nolonger be supported as a valid version

If it goes I guess I will have to try to use 8 and the

On 16/02/2018 4:23 a.m., Michael Capelle wrote:
I don’t blame you, now with facetime, google hangouts, etc,
skype really has died.

From: Damien Garwood
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM
To: <>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

I’ll be abandoning Skype when 7 dies as well. I’ve had a mess
with 8, and as far as I’m concerned, it stinks.
It’s a shame though. While I also have a TeamTalk server, and
while the quality is indeed a lot better, TeamTalk is meant, A,
for teams, and B, not for telephony. To use TeamTalk as a
substitute for Skype would be a pain, since someone would first
have to contact you by other means to ask you to come on TT,
something which obviously isn’t necessary with Skype.
Not only that, but perhaps the biggest issue is that Skype was
my primary telephone.
So yeah. Going Skypeless will indeed take a lot of getting
used to.
I can’t ever see me going back to Skype. Crashes,
shortfalls and process hogging are only the primary issues. And
there’s me thinking Skype could never be any slower and broken
than it already was in 7.

From: Michael Capelle
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 2:17 PM
To: <>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

i agree, i only use team talk, as i have my own server, and
quality is much better.
e-mail me off list if you wish to join my server.

From: Robert Kingett
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 8:15 AM
To: <>
Subject: [nvda] Phasing out of 7

The below page from Doug lee explains the phasing out of Skype
in favor of Skype 8 or the Universal App on windows 10. I have no
idea what you folks on XP will do, but I stopped using Skype in
favor of team talk anyway.

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