Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Steve Nutt

Hi Angela,

This may get off topic for this list, so I suggest that with Glenn's
permission, you write to him directly with questions. I'll do that too, if
that's OK with Glenn, but I'm going to play first.

All the best


-----Original Message-----
From: <> On Behalf Of Angela Delicata
Sent: 22 May 2018 15:59
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Hi Glen,

I am very interested: please, speak about linux and how accessible it is...
I have never used it and don't know many blind folks who use this system...
If you say it is so good, I wonder why so  few people use it I mean I know
quite a lot of blind folks and they have  Apple and Windows, but Linumx is
not so much used. Why is is so?

Tell me, i am curious because I would like to learn to use it in the future.

Thank you so much.


Angela from Italy

Il 22/05/2018 16:21, Ervin, Glenn ha scritto:
I think that many who don't like Microsoft's changes will try and find
that they like Linux.
I often Use Ubuntu, and Orca is as good of a screenreader as NVDA. It
comes with eSpeak, but I purchased Eloquence for 5 dollars and it is all
You can download an ISO image here:
and you can burn it to DVD or USB and you will be surprised how much it is
like Windows.
I'd say it is more like Windows than Windows is becoming.
It uses familiar keystrokes, like alt + tab and alt + F4, and the copy &
paste, to mention a few.
It is more secure than Windows for sure.
It comes with Orca and you can start it by pressing Windows + S after it
starts to bring up Orca.
I think we need more tools in our tool kit, and if nothing else, you can
use it to retrieve your data if Windows won't boot.
After burning to disk, when it spins up and stops, it will beep, and you
only need to press enter, which is for trying it without installing it.

From: [] On Behalf Of
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Joseph, it really seems like Microsoft wishes to totally do away with the
conventional Windows Desktop interface?

The future Windows OS will rely heavily on Edge to not only surf the web,
but launch apps (Universal) and perform common end-user tasks (Word
Processing, watching videos, listening to music etc.) No more minimizing
Windows. No more switching from Desktop to Start button, to Tasks bar.
Microsoft Edge will be the parent node for everything that occurs in

So you will no longer need to close Windows, but "Tabs" to unload/dismiss
open programs/sites/projects.

Is that what the future holds for Windows users?

Looks like they learned from their mistake of removing the conventional
Start button in the original Windows 10 release. They're taking a spoon fed
approach to getting rid of the Desktop interface this time LOL.

On 5/16/2018 1:04 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi Roger and others,
I knew this day would come (smiles to himself)...
The following describes a Windows 10 feature under active development.
Thus, what I say below may change without notice, and feature availability
will depend on maturity of the feature in question:

A set is a grouping of apps into tabs designed to package related
activities together. Previously, if you wanted a tabbed app usage
experience, you had to use web browsers and certain apps that does support
tabs (Notepad++ is one of them). Sets changes this in a major way: you'll be
able to run apps inside Microsoft Edge tabs.

When you run an app with Sets on, you'll see (or feel) several new screen
controls that invite you to open a new tab, a list of tabs will be shown,
and a button that offers to restore previously opened tabs. The actual app
content will be housed inside a Microsoft Edge container window, similar to
what happens now when you use certain apps with Windows My People (Version

While an app is running inside a Sets window, press Control+Windows+T to
open a new "tab". This new tab window (from Microsoft Edge) consists of
typical new tab content, as well as an embedded Cortana search box that lets
you search for things such as another app to open. After searching for
things via this search box, press Enter to open an app or a file. The Edge
new tab content is replaced by app screen, and a new tab, representing the
just opened app, will be listed in tabs list.

To move between app tabs, press Control+Windows+Tab or
Control+Windows+Shift+Tab. To switch to a particular app tab (provided that
you know the app position), press Control+Windows+number row key. To close
an app, press Control+Windows+W, and to close everything in one go, press

You may have noticed a familiar pattern: if you're using a web browser
that supports tabbed browsing, the commands to switch between app tabs are
nothing more than switching between browser tabs, except that you would add
the Windows key to the mix.

But that's not all Sets can do and change:

* In Timeline (Task View in Version 1803 and later), Windows will
list previously opened set and offer to restore all app tabs in one go.
* When you pres Alt+Tab, you'll be able to cycle through Edge tabs
and other windows. This is because, in reality, app tabs are apps running
inside Edge container window, so will be treated as switching between apps.
You can change it so that Alt+Tab will let you cycle between app windows
instead, which means only the focused app in a set will be visible.
* You can ask Windows to open things you click from one app in
another window or a tab. For example, if you click a link in outlook,
Windows will either open the link in a new browser window or a new Edge tab.

There are practical consequences as a result of using Sets:

* Tabbed File Explorer: you'll be able to view multiple folders and
drives in one sitting.
* Writing papers and viewing research results: you can have an app
tabs set where you have Word or Libreoffice Writer open and a collection of
Edge tabs with research data.
* Updating currency conversion formula in Excel: you can have a
workbook open in Excel while using latest currency conversion results from
Calculator app and update your spreadsheet accordingly.
* Testing accessibility of an app while debugging it via Python
Console: you'll be able to open a set where one tab is NVDA's own Python
Console and the other one could be an app you're actively testing.


<><> On Behalf Of Roger
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Can you please explain what is meant by "the new feature of sets" and how
do I find this and turn it on? Also, why would I need it on? Does it help
with screen reader accessibility?



On 5/16/2018 11:00 AM, Gene wrote:
That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to
matter. A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they
learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted
users. and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't
have any of those problems. Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may
not be on by default. As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind
users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10. Even if the
problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with
not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies
even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

I'll get it when I get a new computer. I won't upgrade a machine that is
working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian's Mail list account via
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep
on fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I
have actually given up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft
can simply provide a system stable and just with security updates like
windows 7. They are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new
versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into
the keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful.
Fine have new features but do not change the whole concept and still call
it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their
messing about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up
Skype have been let loose on the innards of Windows!
Hides behind sofa. Brian<>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-<>, putting 'Brian
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <<>>
To: <<>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically
if Win
10 is detected? New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
addons for their screen reader.

All the best


-----Original Message-----
<<>> On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem
to make much difference.

I must play a bit more.

All the best


-----Original Message-----
<<>> On Behalf Of
Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the version of win
10 essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try
to isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-<>, putting 'Brian
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt"
To: <<>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Hi Jacob,

I have three machines here, all on 1803. None of them work at all
well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
unusable, as is Outlook.

At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well. But I don't know why
NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.

All the best


<<>> On Behalf Of Jacob
Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning
- it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a
solid state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react
a bit more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in
file explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows
1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:


I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.

It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be
For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me

JAWS is reading lists quite happily.

Any thoughts?


All the best



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