Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


Steve Nutt
 

Wow, I wish I could agree with you. Still not enough configuration for me.

NVDA's not bad, but not so usable as JAWS with applications that have
custom interfaces.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Angela Delicata
Sent: 22 May 2018 16:16
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Thank you for your reply: I think nvda is getting more and more closer to
Jaws and I would dare to say  it is very very good now... I am using it full
time and don't feel the need for Jws at all...

I don't no with specific software, but i know friends of mine who use it at
workplace also, nvda I mean.



Il 22/05/2018 17:07, Ervin, Glenn ha scritto:
Hi Angela,
I think Linux and Apple both suffer the loss to Microsoft.
Just like with the old video tapes, one has to win out, and it may not be
the best one.
I think that Linux is superior to Windows in many ways, although like
NVDA, Orca is not as robust as JFW.
But most of the software we use in Linux is free.
I think that many of us who are getting Mom & Dad or Grandma and Grandpa
their first computer would do well to get them a computer with Ubuntu,
especially if they are not visually impaired.
They can more safely browse the web and still do their eMail and play
those card games.
Or I think that if they had an XP machine or will soon need to replace
their Windows 7 machine, you can install Ubuntu on that old computer
alongside of their old windows and they will be happy and more secure.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angela
Delicata
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 9:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Hi Glen,

I am very interested: please, speak about linux and how accessible it
is... I have never used it and don't know many blind folks who use this
system... If you say it is so good, I wonder why so  few people use it I
mean I know quite a lot of blind folks and they have  Apple and Windows,
but Linumx is not so much used. Why is is so?

Tell me, i am curious because I would like to learn to use it in the
future.

Thank you so much.

Best.

Angela from Italy


Il 22/05/2018 16:21, Ervin, Glenn ha scritto:
I think that many who don't like Microsoft's changes will try and find
that they like Linux.
I often Use Ubuntu, and Orca is as good of a screenreader as NVDA. It
comes with eSpeak, but I purchased Eloquence for 5 dollars and it is all
free.
You can download an ISO image here:
https://ubuntu-mate.org/download/index.html
and you can burn it to DVD or USB and you will be surprised how much it
is like Windows.
I'd say it is more like Windows than Windows is becoming.
It uses familiar keystrokes, like alt + tab and alt + F4, and the copy &
paste, to mention a few.
It is more secure than Windows for sure.
It comes with Orca and you can start it by pressing Windows + S after it
starts to bring up Orca.
I think we need more tools in our tool kit, and if nothing else, you can
use it to retrieve your data if Windows won't boot.
After burning to disk, when it spins up and stops, it will beep, and you
only need to press enter, which is for trying it without installing it.
Glenn


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 5:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


Joseph, it really seems like Microsoft wishes to totally do away with the
conventional Windows Desktop interface?



The future Windows OS will rely heavily on Edge to not only surf the web,
but launch apps (Universal) and perform common end-user tasks (Word
Processing, watching videos, listening to music etc.) No more minimizing
Windows. No more switching from Desktop to Start button, to Tasks bar.
Microsoft Edge will be the parent node for everything that occurs in
Windows.



So you will no longer need to close Windows, but "Tabs" to unload/dismiss
open programs/sites/projects.



Is that what the future holds for Windows users?



Looks like they learned from their mistake of removing the conventional
Start button in the original Windows 10 release. They're taking a spoon fed
approach to getting rid of the Desktop interface this time LOL.

On 5/16/2018 1:04 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi Roger and others,
I knew this day would come (smiles to himself)...
The following describes a Windows 10 feature under active development.
Thus, what I say below may change without notice, and feature availability
will depend on maturity of the feature in question:

A set is a grouping of apps into tabs designed to package related
activities together. Previously, if you wanted a tabbed app usage
experience, you had to use web browsers and certain apps that does support
tabs (Notepad++ is one of them). Sets changes this in a major way: you'll be
able to run apps inside Microsoft Edge tabs.

When you run an app with Sets on, you'll see (or feel) several new screen
controls that invite you to open a new tab, a list of tabs will be shown,
and a button that offers to restore previously opened tabs. The actual app
content will be housed inside a Microsoft Edge container window, similar to
what happens now when you use certain apps with Windows My People (Version
1709).

While an app is running inside a Sets window, press Control+Windows+T to
open a new "tab". This new tab window (from Microsoft Edge) consists of
typical new tab content, as well as an embedded Cortana search box that lets
you search for things such as another app to open. After searching for
things via this search box, press Enter to open an app or a file. The Edge
new tab content is replaced by app screen, and a new tab, representing the
just opened app, will be listed in tabs list.

To move between app tabs, press Control+Windows+Tab or
Control+Windows+Shift+Tab. To switch to a particular app tab (provided that
you know the app position), press Control+Windows+number row key. To close
an app, press Control+Windows+W, and to close everything in one go, press
Alt+F4.

You may have noticed a familiar pattern: if you're using a web browser
that supports tabbed browsing, the commands to switch between app tabs are
nothing more than switching between browser tabs, except that you would add
the Windows key to the mix.

But that's not all Sets can do and change:


* In Timeline (Task View in Version 1803 and later), Windows will
list previously opened set and offer to restore all app tabs in one go.
* When you pres Alt+Tab, you'll be able to cycle through Edge tabs
and other windows. This is because, in reality, app tabs are apps running
inside Edge container window, so will be treated as switching between apps.
You can change it so that Alt+Tab will let you cycle between app windows
instead, which means only the focused app in a set will be visible.
* You can ask Windows to open things you click from one app in
another window or a tab. For example, if you click a link in outlook,
Windows will either open the link in a new browser window or a new Edge tab.

There are practical consequences as a result of using Sets:


* Tabbed File Explorer: you'll be able to view multiple folders and
drives in one sitting.
* Writing papers and viewing research results: you can have an app
tabs set where you have Word or Libreoffice Writer open and a collection of
Edge tabs with research data.
* Updating currency conversion formula in Excel: you can have a
workbook open in Excel while using latest currency conversion results from
Calculator app and update your spreadsheet accordingly.
* Testing accessibility of an app while debugging it via Python
Console: you'll be able to open a set where one tab is NVDA's own Python
Console and the other one could be an app you're actively testing.

Cheers,
Joseph


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 9:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Can you please explain what is meant by "the new feature of sets" and how
do I find this and turn it on? Also, why would I need it on? Does it help
with screen reader accessibility?

Thanks.

Roger










On 5/16/2018 11:00 AM, Gene wrote:
That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to
matter. A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they
learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted
users. and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't
have any of those problems. Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may
not be on by default. As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough
blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10. Even if
the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt
with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that
justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

I'll get it when I get a new computer. I won't upgrade a machine that is
working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io<mailto:bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can
simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7.
They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have
new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows
10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their
messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
Hides behind sofa. Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk<mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
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Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk<mailto:steve@comproom.co.uk>>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if
Win
10 is detected? New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
addons
for their screen reader.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Hi,

I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
make much difference.

I must play a bit more.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the version of win 10
essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk<mailto:steve@comproom.co.uk>>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


Hi Jacob,



I have three machines here, all on 1803. None of them work at all
well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
unusable, as is Outlook.



At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well. But I don't know why
NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.



All the best


Steve

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Jacob
Kruger
Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803



Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.



Stay well



Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,



I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.



It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be
reading.
For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me
now.



JAWS is reading lists quite happily.



Any thoughts?



Thanks.



All the best



Steve



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