Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


Steve Nutt
 

Hello Jean,

 

I can confirm that reinstalling doesn’t solve the problem either.

 

Besides, I get the same problem with Narrator, so it is a general UIA problem I believe.  But as long as I have one screen reader that works well in File Explorer, then I’m happy. <Smile>.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 22 May 2018 17:49
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

This problem started with the newest major update to Windows.  I have no idea whether reinstalling would help but who knows?  I am skeptical that other user attempts, such as stopping apps will help.  Not only did this problem start with the newest full version of Windows, but it isn't even a question of slow response.  It reads the first item in a list and doesn't read any other items.  This is not what I would expect even if a lot of apps were running. Slow, yes.  A complete failure to read any more than the first item in the list, no. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Jackie

Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 10:58 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Yeah, & this was something I was gonna ask Steve to do, ie, download
frst64.exe & run it so I could see what apps were running. I wanted to
see if a reinstall might help first, though, because Steve doesn't
know me all that well, & the program might provide me w/insights he'd
rather I not have. But it would be interesting to see if perhaps there
were bloat/mal/pup-ware on the machines that was taking up resources.

On 5/22/18, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> To Steve: thanks for testing this.
>
> To everyone else: Steve’s reply confirms suspicions raised by some folks:
> UIA miscommunication. UIA slowing down can be caused by anything, the most
> notable ones being a flood of events and a long-running task that blocks UIA
> from helping NVDA. I’m thinking that somehow, there are apps that uses a lot
> of resources or fires many UIA events to a point UIA stalls. One possible
> way to resolve this is closing apps via Task Manager (although that might
> not respond well if tasks use a lot of resources).
>
> Regarding this problem, if I remember conversations between developers
> correctly (on Gitter), Microsoft and NV Access had many conversations
> regarding this matter. Although Microsoft did fix UIA issues in recent
> Windows 10 releases, both entities acknowledge that there are problems to be
> resolved.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 4:04 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>
> Hi David and Joseph,
>
>
>
> Yes, If I type it correctly, as David states, then my Explorer.exe
> functionality comes back.
>
>
>
> So it has to be a UIA thing.
>
>
>
> All the best
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of David Reynolds
> Sent: 21 May 2018 21:30
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>
> Joseph,
>
> You made a typo, it should say:
>
> UIAHandler.terminate()
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> David.
>
>
>
> On 21-May-18 9:04 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> For those experiencing this problem, can you try the following for me
> please:
>
> 1. Press Control+NVDA+Z to open Python Console
> 2. Type the following as exactly as shown:
>
>
>
> import UIAHandler
>
> UIAHandler.temrinate()
>
>
>
> Then press Escape, and try navigating around File Explorer. Note that this
> will turn off UIA support completely, so it’ll mean Start menu and other UIA
> controls won’t work.
>
> If you find that this helps NVDA respond better, then we can rule out screen
> resolution and other things that has nothing to do with UI Automation and
> other causes. If this procedure does not help, then we need to look into
> possibly universal apps taking up resources, unresponsive drivers, UIA
> getting stuck somewhere and what not.
>
> After you experiment with this, either restart NvDA or restore UIA support
> via Python Console. To do this via python Console:
>
> 1. Press Control+NvDA+Z to open Python Console.
> 2. Type the following as exactly as shown:
>
>
>
> import UIAHandler
>
> UIAHandler.initialize()
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annette
> Moore
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 12:54 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>
> Unlike Steve, I can get my lists to read after sitting here for a minute or
> two or just having one window in focus and not alt tabbing to another one
> for a few minutes. It's almost like something has to catch up with what I'm
> doing, but it will--eventually--do what it's supposed to. I never came to
> the list with this, though, because I just figured it was something with
> NVDA that would likely be corrected in another update because it just
> recently started doing this and it's not so disruptive that it's rendering
> my use of the computer or File Explorer completely impossible. Restarting
> NVDA also corrects it, and usually for the rest of the day, it's fine. It
> sounds like Steve's having a much worse time with it than I am. Also,
> closing and reopening the window you're trying to read lists from helps.
> I've done that as well. Maximizing the window will read you the list item in
> focus, but if it isn't ready to settle down and behave yet, you have to keep
> maximizing the window as you arrow down so it'll read you the list item. It
> does move as you arrow down, though; it will move to the next item; it just
> won't read you what it is until you maximize the screen. It's really bad
> with Dropbox. It's worse with Dropbox than it is with File Explorer. When I
> copy and paste something or move something out of a Dropbox folder, I'd
> better get up and take a short, two or three-minute break because it's going
> to take that long to behave again, and then, once I cloes the Dropbox
> window, all is well. I do find, though, that the more windows I have open,
> the worse it is, so now I just try to work with two or three open at a time,
> and if I can, I close one if I want to open another one. that's probably
> just good, practical use of the computer anyway; you don't want to have too
> many windows open or it'll start acting funky anyway. If it gets worse, I'll
> just reinstall NVDA
>
> Annette
>
>
>
> On 5/21/2018 1:15 PM, Gene wrote:
>
> I agree.  While certain settings may affect this problem, I doubt that most
> of them do, and not all are appropriate for all computers, such as the
> resolution.  But the reason I'm doubtful that any settings changes will help
> is because this is a new problem after the latest Windows update.  It sounds
> to me like a UIA automation problem, which isn't user correctable.
>
>
>
> Gene
>
> ----- Original message -----
>
> From: Jackie <mailto:abletec@...>
>
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:10 PM
>
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>
> W/all due respect, I will disagree w/some of these last comments. I've
> disabled graphics hotkeys, as inadvertently pressing these can cause
> display rotation. I'm not sure if that will cause problems w/NVDA if
> the display is unintentionally rotated, but I can tell you for certain
> sighted folks hate standing on their head to look at the screen. The
> resolution should be that supported by the monitor. Mine, for example,
> is 1920x1080.
>
> Steve, just out of curiosity, have you tried uninstalling & then
> reinstalling NVDA w/the latest update? I'm just wondering if something
> may have gotten corrupted here.
>
> On 5/21/18, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@... <mailto:aa2vm@...>
>> wrote:
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>>
>> I am wondering about what settings you have for the File Explorer.  I
>> have noticed that with some settings in Windows/file explorer since
>> Windows 7, that it doesn't interface well with screen readers.  In
>> particular, if you have under the view menu extra large icons or grid or
>> something other than list or details checked, you will have problems.
>> First check the view menu to see that either list or details is checked.
>>
>>
>> Also make sure that everything under the group by sub menu is
>> unchecked.  If anything is checked under that menu, it can result in
>> sluggishness and odd behavior.
>>
>>
>> Also under the graphics options sub menu there are sub menus. Under the
>> panel options only the display scaling is checked. Under the resolution
>> sub menu 1024 X 768 is checked. Under the rotaton sub menu, rotate to 0
>> degrees is checked.
>>
>> Under the hotkeys and tray icons sub menu, they are both enabled.
>>
>>
>> Check out these settings and make them conform to the suggestions above
>> and see if that helps with your file explorer issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/21/2018 11:10 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>>
>>> Yep, this pretty much mirrors my experience, although I can never get
>>> NVDA to read the list now.
>>>
>>> NVDA is pretty horrible with File Explorer under Windows 10, and it’s
>>> got worse with this build.
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > *On Behalf Of
>>> *Annette Moore
>>> *Sent:* 20 May 2018 20:15
>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>>
>>> I just close file explorer and reopen it when it starts acting funky.
>>> either that, or I shut down NVDA and restart it. Alternatively, I can
>>> sit here and stare at the computer for a few minutes, until it decides
>>> to behave itself, which it does eventually do. It has to be an NVDA
>>> thing, though, because it doesn't do this with System Access at all. I
>>> have trouble alt tabbing between windows when it wants to act up, and
>>> then I have trouble going through list items. It's like the cursor
>>> doesn't want to move through them but it actually does; it's just NVDA
>>> isn't reading me the items. I also find that if I have more than, say,
>>> two or three windows open and I close one of them, it starts working
>>> fine again. It's random, though, so I never know when it's going to
>>> misbehave. It's not aggravating enough to make me switch screen
>>> readers, though. I just figure it'll be fixed in a future update and
>>> go with it.
>>>
>>> Annette
>>>
>>> On 5/20/2018 11:36 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>>
>>>     So I wonder what is the determining factor then?
>>>
>>>     All the best
>>>
>>>
>>>     Steve
>>>
>>>     *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>     <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >
>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>>>     *Greg Wocher
>>>     *Sent:* 20 May 2018 17:14
>>>     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>     *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>>
>>>     Hello,
>>>
>>>     I am running the latest version of NVDA on my HP laptop and I do
>>>     not have any issues using NVDA with file explorer. I am also using
>>>     the 1803 Windows update.
>>>
>>>     Greg Wocher
>>>
>>>         On May 20, 2018, at 7:00 AM, Steve Nutt <steve@...
>>> <mailto:steve@...>
>>>         <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         I’m assuming you haven’t tried it in the File Explorer app
>>>         then?  That’s the bug I was reporting.
>>>
>>>         All the best
>>>
>>>
>>>         Steve
>>>
>>>         *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io%3E%3Cnvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> ><nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io%3E%3E*On>
>>> >>*On Behalf Of*Sarah k Alawami
>>>         *Sent:*18 May 2018 21:28
>>>         *To:*nvda list list <nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
>>>         *Subject:*Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10
>>> 1803
>>>
>>>         I can't remember if I replied or not but lists are fine in the
>>>         explorer.exe app. I'm so far knock on wood not having any
>>>         issues as far as I can see, except for obs but that's probably
>>>         a broken app.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             On May 16, 2018, at 1:03 AM, Steve Nutt
>>>             <steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
>>> <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             Hi,
>>>
>>>             I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not
>>>             reading for me.
>>>
>>>             It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don’t seem
>>>             to be reading.  For example, File Explorer in Windows 10
>>>             is completely silent for me now.
>>>
>>>             JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>>
>>>             Any thoughts?
>>>
>>>             Thanks.
>>>
>>>             All the best
>>>
>>>             Steve
>>>
>>>             --
>>>
>>>             Computer Room Services
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>             Hertfordshire
>>>
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>>>
>>>             Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
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>>>
>>>             Email:steve@...
>>> <mailto:Email:steve@...>  <mailto:steve@...>
>>>
>>>             Web:http://www.comproom.co.uk <http://www.comproom.co.uk/>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
>> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
>> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
> Jackie McBride
> Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
> https://brighter-vision.com
>
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>


--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


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