Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


Steve Nutt
 

Hi Richard,

Believe me, I am still working on that one. If only one of my machines did it, it would be easier, but all three of mine fail miserably with NVDA and Explorer.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Wells
Sent: 22 May 2018 18:52
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

I suppose the next question is, why are some having problems with NVDA and UIA and others are not? If we could find that common thread, we would know if it is a Windows issue or an NVDA problem.


On 5/22/2018 11:37 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
Hi Jackie,

No malware here, according to various things. I have Malwarebytes, but I don't run it automatically, I only scan when I need to.

No bloat on these custom machines, I know what I'm doing.

So I suspect it's a Microsoft/UIA/NVDA miscommunication thing, especially as I said, JAWS works fine, but JAWS doesn't rely on UIA alone.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie
Sent: 22 May 2018 16:59
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Yeah, & this was something I was gonna ask Steve to do, ie, download frst64.exe & run it so I could see what apps were running. I wanted to see if a reinstall might help first, though, because Steve doesn't know me all that well, & the program might provide me w/insights he'd rather I not have. But it would be interesting to see if perhaps there were bloat/mal/pup-ware on the machines that was taking up resources.

On 5/22/18, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,

To Steve: thanks for testing this.

To everyone else: Steve’s reply confirms suspicions raised by some folks:
UIA miscommunication. UIA slowing down can be caused by anything, the
most notable ones being a flood of events and a long-running task
that blocks UIA from helping NVDA. I’m thinking that somehow, there
are apps that uses a lot of resources or fires many UIA events to a
point UIA stalls. One possible way to resolve this is closing apps
via Task Manager (although that might not respond well if tasks use a lot of resources).

Regarding this problem, if I remember conversations between
developers correctly (on Gitter), Microsoft and NV Access had many
conversations regarding this matter. Although Microsoft did fix UIA
issues in recent Windows 10 releases, both entities acknowledge that
there are problems to be resolved.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 4:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803



Hi David and Joseph,



Yes, If I type it correctly, as David states, then my Explorer.exe
functionality comes back.



So it has to be a UIA thing.



All the best



Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of
David Reynolds
Sent: 21 May 2018 21:30
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803



Joseph,

You made a typo, it should say:

UIAHandler.terminate()



Cheers,



David.



On 21-May-18 9:04 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

For those experiencing this problem, can you try the following for me
please:

1. Press Control+NVDA+Z to open Python Console
2. Type the following as exactly as shown:



import UIAHandler

UIAHandler.temrinate()



Then press Escape, and try navigating around File Explorer. Note that
this will turn off UIA support completely, so it’ll mean Start menu
and other UIA controls won’t work.

If you find that this helps NVDA respond better, then we can rule out
screen resolution and other things that has nothing to do with UI
Automation and other causes. If this procedure does not help, then we
need to look into possibly universal apps taking up resources,
unresponsive drivers, UIA getting stuck somewhere and what not.

After you experiment with this, either restart NvDA or restore UIA
support via Python Console. To do this via python Console:

1. Press Control+NvDA+Z to open Python Console.
2. Type the following as exactly as shown:



import UIAHandler

UIAHandler.initialize()



Cheers,

Joseph





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Annette Moore
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 12:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803



Unlike Steve, I can get my lists to read after sitting here for a
minute or two or just having one window in focus and not alt tabbing
to another one for a few minutes. It's almost like something has to
catch up with what I'm doing, but it will--eventually--do what it's
supposed to. I never came to the list with this, though, because I
just figured it was something with NVDA that would likely be
corrected in another update because it just recently started doing
this and it's not so disruptive that it's rendering my use of the
computer or File Explorer completely impossible. Restarting NVDA also
corrects it, and usually for the rest of the day, it's fine. It
sounds like Steve's having a much worse time with it than I am. Also, closing and reopening the window you're trying to read lists from helps.
I've done that as well. Maximizing the window will read you the list
item in focus, but if it isn't ready to settle down and behave yet,
you have to keep maximizing the window as you arrow down so it'll
read you the list item. It does move as you arrow down, though; it
will move to the next item; it just won't read you what it is until
you maximize the screen. It's really bad with Dropbox. It's worse
with Dropbox than it is with File Explorer. When I copy and paste
something or move something out of a Dropbox folder, I'd better get
up and take a short, two or three-minute break because it's going to
take that long to behave again, and then, once I cloes the Dropbox
window, all is well. I do find, though, that the more windows I have
open, the worse it is, so now I just try to work with two or three
open at a time, and if I can, I close one if I want to open another
one. that's probably just good, practical use of the computer anyway;
you don't want to have too many windows open or it'll start acting funky anyway.
If it gets worse, I'll just reinstall NVDA

Annette



On 5/21/2018 1:15 PM, Gene wrote:

I agree. While certain settings may affect this problem, I doubt
that most of them do, and not all are appropriate for all computers,
such as the resolution. But the reason I'm doubtful that any
settings changes will help is because this is a new problem after the
latest Windows update. It sounds to me like a UIA automation problem, which isn't user correctable.



Gene

----- Original message -----

From: Jackie <mailto:abletec@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:10 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803



W/all due respect, I will disagree w/some of these last comments.
I've disabled graphics hotkeys, as inadvertently pressing these can
cause display rotation. I'm not sure if that will cause problems
w/NVDA if the display is unintentionally rotated, but I can tell you
for certain sighted folks hate standing on their head to look at the
screen. The resolution should be that supported by the monitor. Mine,
for example, is 1920x1080.

Steve, just out of curiosity, have you tried uninstalling & then
reinstalling NVDA w/the latest update? I'm just wondering if
something may have gotten corrupted here.

On 5/21/18, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com
<mailto:aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
wrote:
Hi Steve,


I am wondering about what settings you have for the File Explorer.
I have noticed that with some settings in Windows/file explorer
since Windows 7, that it doesn't interface well with screen readers.
In particular, if you have under the view menu extra large icons or
grid or something other than list or details checked, you will have problems.
First check the view menu to see that either list or details is checked.


Also make sure that everything under the group by sub menu is
unchecked. If anything is checked under that menu, it can result in
sluggishness and odd behavior.


Also under the graphics options sub menu there are sub menus. Under
the panel options only the display scaling is checked. Under the
resolution sub menu 1024 X 768 is checked. Under the rotaton sub
menu, rotate to 0 degrees is checked.

Under the hotkeys and tray icons sub menu, they are both enabled.


Check out these settings and make them conform to the suggestions
above and see if that helps with your file explorer issues.



On 5/21/2018 11:10 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
Yep, this pretty much mirrors my experience, although I can never
get NVDA to read the list now.

NVDA is pretty horrible with File Explorer under Windows 10, and
it’s got worse with this build.

All the best

Steve

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > *On Behalf Of *Annette Moore
*Sent:* 20 May 2018 20:15
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

I just close file explorer and reopen it when it starts acting funky.
either that, or I shut down NVDA and restart it. Alternatively, I
can sit here and stare at the computer for a few minutes, until it
decides to behave itself, which it does eventually do. It has to be
an NVDA thing, though, because it doesn't do this with System
Access at all. I have trouble alt tabbing between windows when it
wants to act up, and then I have trouble going through list items.
It's like the cursor doesn't want to move through them but it
actually does; it's just NVDA isn't reading me the items. I also
find that if I have more than, say, two or three windows open and I
close one of them, it starts working fine again. It's random,
though, so I never know when it's going to misbehave. It's not
aggravating enough to make me switch screen readers, though. I just
figure it'll be fixed in a future update and go with it.

Annette

On 5/20/2018 11:36 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

So I wonder what is the determining factor then?

All the best


Steve

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Greg Wocher
*Sent:* 20 May 2018 17:14
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10
1803

Hello,

I am running the latest version of NVDA on my HP laptop and I do
not have any issues using NVDA with file explorer. I am also using
the 1803 Windows update.

Greg Wocher

On May 20, 2018, at 7:00 AM, Steve Nutt
<steve@comproom.co.uk <mailto:steve@comproom.co.uk>
<mailto:steve@comproom.co.uk>> wrote:

I’m assuming you haven’t tried it in the File Explorer app
then? That’s the bug I was reporting.

All the best


Steve

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io%3E%3Cnvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io%3E%3E*On>
*On Behalf Of*Sarah k Alawami
*Sent:*18 May 2018 21:28
*To:*nvda list list <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows
10
1803

I can't remember if I replied or not but lists are fine in the
explorer.exe app. I'm so far knock on wood not having any
issues as far as I can see, except for obs but that's probably
a broken app.



On May 16, 2018, at 1:03 AM, Steve Nutt
<steve@comproom.co.uk <mailto:steve@comproom.co.uk>
<mailto:steve@comproom.co.uk>> wrote:

Hi,

I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not
reading for me.

It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don’t seem
to be reading. For example, File Explorer in Windows 10
is completely silent for me now.

JAWS is reading lists quite happily.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

All the best

Steve

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