Re: My thoughts on offensive company names and so on.

David Moore

Here is my wisdom!

If you have nothing good to say, say nothing, that would be so much better! If you have a problem with someone, say it to their face, quit being evasive with members on the list, who can do nothing about your gripe. Talk to MS yourself!

David Moore


                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10


From: John Isige
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 3:35 AM
Subject: [nvda] My thoughts on offensive company names and so on.


Well for me, I don't care about the offensiveness so much. What I care

about is stuff like:


Last night I was using elocrash with Skum from Microslop and I tried

with the shark and Microslop Notreader and NVDA and nothing was

working"! I'm sorry, l33t (look it up if you don't know/remember) wasn't

cool back in the 80s when it got started, and this stuff that's

essentially an equivalent of it isn't cool either. I know, just like the

l33t k1dz whu t0t3z roxxorz! you think you're terribly terribly clever,

but just as they weren't, really, you're not.


That's my problem, having to parse whatever dumb gibberish people think

is clever this week because all they can do is puns, the lowest form of

humor, on company names that really don't work anyway, instead of coming

up with something that's actually witty and meaningful. You see what I

did there? I actually wrote real words that everybody can understand and

stuff instead of going "shut up, John Isicky"! It also seems really odd

to insult a company you just got done saying did something right, but

maybe that's just that irony all you young people are supposed to be

into nowadays, and I'm just too old to get it. Besides, you will never

beat the pun on HP-UX, which is both obvious and funny, so really,

there's no point to it all anyway. I'll leave the working out of that

pun as an exercise for the reader.


Don't get me wrong, I agree with the offensive part too. While I realize

companies, e.g. Microsoft, have a history to live down, a lot of that

was quite a while ago. Plus, how are they ever going to live it down or

get better if we're not giving them a chance, semi-praising them on the

one hand and insulting them on the other? You think that will make them

want to keep putting in the work for accessibility? Also, what in the

world is up with this "they're playing catch-up" stuff? Ooooo, Apple did

accessibility right, they showed everybody how it's done! OK, and then

you're upset that somebody's copying that? I mean, if Apple's so super

special awesome and all, shouldn't we want everybody and their fifth

cousin to copy them, such that we have proper accessibility on every

conceivable platform? Why are you complaining that other companies are

doing something like that? That should be, as I believe I've said when

it was mentioned that keyboard commands were being changed to be more

like other screen readers, exactly what we want. For example, my wife

bought a used mac for us. I read this article:


Looking at the web section, I see we've got commands to jump by headings

and all, and it seems pretty similar to other screen readers. Great!

That's less time wasted in trying to figure out how to do simple things,

and more time using the mac. Obviously I want to get more familiar with

the mac way of doing things and not just do what I'm doing on Windows,

because maybe mac does something better. But that will happen over time.

If I want to sit down and start checking something out to see what it's

like, the more barriers in my way like "learn an entirely different set

of commands and things just to navigate a web page", the less likely I

am to want to use that thing.


I'm not suggesting that every screen reader should work exactly like

every other screen reader. I'm saying that there should be a base set of

things that are pretty similar, e.g. I can do a lot of the same basic

stuff to get around in Android that I can do to get around in iOS. Sure,

if I really want to use either one, I'm going to have to learn their

specifics, but in general, I can pick up either kind of device with a

screen reader active and start using it to do stuff, no problem. You can

see this with NVDA too. What's the thing most people get hung up on?


That's right, object navigation. I use it a lot more now, particularly

if something isn't reading what I think it should, but it was confusing

for a bit until I got Joseph's tutorial. But you know what? Part of that

was because it was different from other screen readers I'd used, but

part of it was that I didn't have to worry about using it for a long

time, because NVDA does what I'm talking about. If you've used NVDA and

JFW, as I assume most people here have, you know there's a lot of stuff

that's similar between them in how you access Windows, e.g. using the

arrow keys and such.


But maybe you actually find object navigation better than the jaws

cursor. I'll give you an example, on the mac if you're reading a table,

you interact with it. Then you read it like you read any other thing. So

there's only, potentially, one extra command to remember, you have to

interact first. I don't have to try and learn a whole new set of table

navigation keystrokes. I used that example because it's fresh in my mind

and I honestly don't remember enough about how JFW did things to say

what's better or worse between it and NVDA.


Anyway the point to this rambling is that we shouldn't be implying that

other companies are substandard or whatever, because they've got feature

Y that looks a lot like feature X from Company Z's screen reader Lava

Talk, the screen reader that spits fire! We should be going "awesome,

they realized what works already, that's gonna save me a lot of time if

I ever have to learn or use that screen reader, especially if it's on

short notice". We shouldn't be complaining that they're "catching up". I

say, are they doing the work? Great, that means more stuff I can use in

more situations. Any "catching up" being done is nothing but a benefit

to us, pure and simple. Here's one last example. Microsoft now has it so

you can use Narrator in safe mode. How awesome would it be if they had a

key you could hold down while Windows is booting, like the recovery keys

on a mac, that boots you into safe mode automatically? Right now I'm

pretty sure you still have to hit a key and pick from a menu, which

means sighted assistance, if you want to be sure you've got it right.

How cool would it be to hold down, I don't know, Windows-n on boot and

get safe mode with networking, and just waiting a bit and then launching

Narrator and geting speech? I don't know about anybody else, but it

sounds really nice to me, if I ever encounter a problem.


There, I think I'm done. Except to say, again, that we should be

praising companies who are trying to do right, even if we think it took

them long enough, instead of slamming them for that and inventing dumb

insulting names for them. If they're doing right, or trying to do right,

then that's what they're doing, and we should only encourage it. Sure,

if they mess up, tell them so, hopefully constructively. I'm not saying

we should only be nice and say only good things about the stuff

companies make. But by all the gods, have some perspective. Your names

are neither cute nor clever, and we're not twelve any more. I'm pretty

sure I'm like, 14 or something.




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